Some balanced issues POST ON THE SEPARATE TOPICS

[Vladneral]

All below is just my personal opinion almost all issues have been discussed - so most should be fixed in following updates. With unbalnced things(by my opinion) i post some bugs that unfair players could use.
For me that not so critical and i post it again together just cause i was asked so. Well anyway i will mark PRI#  by my feelings.
And write possible decitions BY MY OPINION. On some we have different points of view with Makka i can post his comments later just for now text too long even without them...

PRI#2 Helicopters
Since they make more damage to land units as they should not - i think that because of damage calculation condition:
Choose max possible damage bonus.

Decision: So i think maybe make personal condition that avoid comparing with damage without bonuses

Or is it possible to make add damage from techs with multiply on 0,25 or something. Then just needed rework start damage and put correct damage bonus
Makka decision: make them imposible to attack no fly unit.

PRI#3 Power range(PR) more than 2

By my opinion PR 2 should be the most possible or i can agree with 3 PR for units that have 1 range and  that one should be really expansive.
Why: unuts with PR 3 can annihilate whole armies, many buildings in one turn.

Right now units that can reach 3 power range or more:

Dwarf axeman - 3
Defender chevalier - 3
Defender sabrecore lancer - 3
Defender sabrecore rider - 4
Orc wyrm - 3, range 2
Ettin master - 3, range 3

Decisions: For dwarfs problem will dissapear when we remove trample from alchemist (except sabrecore rider).
Making Less area damage. Decrease base PR for ettin.

PRI#3 Snakes
Snakes too strong early & medium game unit from cheap building.
Fast decision: remove snake building from constructable. (That still can be recruit from mega)
Another decision: increase stats and cost for snake building and lock them behind subrace tech.

PRI#3 Scaledfolks fire tower
Too cheap fire tower for scaledfolks.
Discuss this right here pretty recently. I would like say about one more aspect - heal rate inside is 50 - that too much.

PRI#4 Dwarf lvl up system:

!!! I still need work more with numbers for compare this well with other races. !!!

Too fast lvl up for their power.

Decision:  makes 1st tiers of techs that requires for lvl up more costly but leave total cost the same. Like: 6,8,6,6.
Increase gold mine couldown for abilities to 5.

PRI#4 Too strong spearmans, too weak hoplites
I think we need some rebalance here - most even costly cavalry - 4, 5 turn can be easily one shoot with spearman that have 2 turn cost and hoplites near them looks like the joke. Because of terrain and wagons - foot will have better mobility. So here no sence at all using cavalry in late game.

PRI#5 Ramp and same units in tc
Its too hard to capture tc with ramp inside. With combo: ramp and wagon with range units its too hard to deal with this.
The same with elf ent that can be summon - and if you have temple of nature around with the same wagon combo - this tc stand one of the most tough place.
Desision: Ramps should not be able to enter tc in unpacked form, summon ents should not be able to enter in tc - just make them like bone or flesh golems that can enter tc right now.

PRI#5 Berserker
Too strong early game unit.
200 hp 100% mental resist with 4 speed 2 action and 5 cost for dwarf.

Decision: increase cost to 6 turn. OR remove this unit from barracks for now.

PRI#5 Woodshaper - builder
Woodshaper should not help construct buildings - only heal(repair). With his help elves can build megabuildings too fast.

PRI#6 Exorcism
Too powerful spell against UD
I have stopped use it a long ago so could be mistaken: if memory dont let me down that deal 75% from ud unit max hp and that have 2 turn couldown - and that for 2 turn cost unit ?

Decision: increase couldown or nerf the power.


PRI# 6 Transport issue:
There no more transport that can tranport giants - that a problem in maps with large water areas, especialy for elves, dwarfs

PRI#6 Fly lancers issue:
Too little damage to other fly mount units - too hard to fight with elfs fly mount units especialy with pretty strong dodges, hp, speed and mental resistance. I see not much ways to fight with them.
And about ability that fly lancer(dwarfs and humans) have - i think it should increase speed or damage - not power range - i find that weird.

PRI#7 Elven heal aura
Should not affect buildings or atleast buildings that under construction - start building in this aura helps finish them faster.
Decision: Aura should affect not structure unit.

PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants.
Defender chevalier (11 turn, 650hp) and Defender lancer(9 turn, 540hp) too cheap for dwarfs.
Because Defender lancer have one more use than all other lancers - that antibuilding unit.

Decision: increase their cost to 12 turns for chevalier and 11 for lancer. Or even 12 for both.

PRI#7 Poor giants...
Races with slingers and good buffs from auras, spells can defeat giants too easily like i need only one 3 turn cost slinger from scaledfolk for kill Orc Overlord or Golden Skeleton Giant that have 6 turn cost.

PRI#7 Warfel sub cost:
Total cost is 100 turns
Imperial sub total cost is 36 turns
For warfell researches you need construct special building - for imperial not.

Decision: decrease cost for warfell crystals especialy for not so important ones.

PRI#8 Some buildings with mend rate.
Some buildings can help in construction: all ports, warfell engineering college (someone could notice dwarf foundry also but this one can repair only yourself).

Putting workers inside this building highly increase mend rate so you can build costly constructions pretty fast. Like mega building for 2 turns.
Fast decision: remove mend rate from them for now.

PRI#8 Unfair ud all tech game:

In all tech game undeads have almost all open techs for sub races and some for common casters.

PRI#8 Magic barriers
They have no counter - in thin place humans can hold position forever.
Desision: make it destroyable.

PRI#8 Throw Polulu ability
Polulu ability - works wrong that have much more damage than in description. So with this you can one shoot grand dwarf shielder.

PRI#9 Laborers
Scout cavalry have no bonuses against them so healthy laborers(Orc, lizards, dwarf) can tank them too well for workers.
Extremely high hp for lizard laborer in mid, late game his hp could reach to 145hp.
After last updates laborers lose bonus from ambidexteria tech so they stand useles for humans now.

PRI#9 Healer builder
Some siege/war machines like zeppelins cannons can be constructed/repair by healers - if you leave healer near (no more than 2 tiles) and leave him action in end of turn he will restore hp to this machine. So you can build mortars for one turn help this bug.

PRI#9 Magi bellator

Magi bellator is affected by common magic techs and crystals also that makes him extremily powerful - 10 range ability with extreme power that can one shoot almost mega buildings.
With game knowledge you can make 20 range(or more on roads) death star.
I think almost nobody know this and that can be reached only in large maps with many buildings(watch "Warfell sub cost" issue)

Decision: in issue description.

PRI#10 High speed combo
High speed foot units like minotaurs can make really strong damage with high range grant wagon use.
Example: activate minotaur charge in tc or stone shelter, put in wagon and with right buffs you have 14 range(or more with roads) cannon that can destroy almost any mega with one shoot. Or you could start from open field and just destroy wagon after it moves - then you can use minotaur charge and reach the same range.

Decision: building update, makes impossible using charge ability in garrison and button delete wagon should destroy unit inside too.

PRI#10 Hardened Schutes techs
All locked behind 3 hardened shells techs(15 turns).
That not powerful at all and because lock could be usable only in late game when you dont need them.
Decision: Makes 1st lvl Schutes tech been locked behind 1st lvl Shells tech. 2nd lvl Schutes behind 2nd lvl Shells and 1st lvl Schutes, etc.

P.s. That far from all just what i remember for now. And some more things apear with new update but i need check this properly before report. We could open separate topics for discuss all of this once again...

[Anchar]

PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants.
Defender chevalier (11 turn, 650hp) and Defender lancer(9 turn, 540hp) too cheap for dwarfs.
Because Defender lancer have one more use than all other lancers - that antibuilding unit.

Decision: increase their cost to 12 turns for chevalier and 11 for lancer. Or even 12 for both.


Have you ever seen them in a multiplayer game?

[Anchar]

PRI#3 Scaledfolks fire tower
Too cheap fire tower for scaledfolks.
Discuss this right here pretty recently. I would like say about one more aspect - heal rate inside is 50 - that too much.

I remember before it was very useless (before the lizard updates), it was easily burned or demolished by superior human and dwarf towers or corny elven and human archers who did not give this mold any chance. As for the undead, the undead just have a worthless siege and archers.

[Anchar]

To be honest, I always considered the defense of lizards, on the contrary, to be weak due to low ranges, suitable only against the undead.

[diesel]

I also agree this is the worst problem atm - i think stats are fine but should NOT be available in tc. Actually, all races should not have flying units in tc (ornithopters)


PRI#2 Helicopters
Since they make more damage to land units as they should not - i think that because of damage calculation condition:
Choose max possible damage bonus.

Decision: So i think maybe make personal condition that avoid comparing with damage without bonuses

Or is it possible to make add damage from techs with multiply on 0,25 or something. Then just needed rework start damage and put correct damage bonus
Makka decision: make them imposible to attack no fly unit

[Vladneral]

PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants.
Defender chevalier (11 turn, 650hp) and Defender lancer(9 turn, 540hp) too cheap for dwarfs.
Because Defender lancer have one more use than all other lancers - that antibuilding unit.

Decision: increase their cost to 12 turns for chevalier and 11 for lancer. Or even 12 for both.


Have you ever seen them in a multiplayer game?

I use them myself several times - defender lancer is pretty strong. But to be honest i dont know skillful dwarf players - only "spammers" no tactics just helicopters, riflemans, zeppelins or/and towers. What a sorry sight ! Unworthy to true dwarf power !

[diesel]

*** maybe each topic its own thread, this will be pure chaos soon! ***

[Anchar]

PRI#7 Too cheap(for dwarfs) dwarf giants.
Defender chevalier (11 turn, 650hp) and Defender lancer(9 turn, 540hp) too cheap for dwarfs.
Because Defender lancer have one more use than all other lancers - that antibuilding unit.

Decision: increase their cost to 12 turns for chevalier and 11 for lancer. Or even 12 for both.


Have you ever seen them in a multiplayer game?

I use them myself several times - defender lancer is pretty strong. But to be honest i dont know skillful dwarf players - only "spammers" no tactics just helicopters, riflemans, zeppelins or/and towers. What a sorry sight ! Unworthy to true dwarf power !

As for me, I don’t even often see some troops of the Imperials among the Humans on 50v50 maps, not to mention the fact that they would have to wait for 11 running units with upgrades from the dwarves, usually the outcome of the battle is clear even before they appear and one such unit will either not reach the front line on which you win, or it will not be enough to withstand the superior enemy to whom you lose.

[makazuwr32]

Wall of issues here.

Helicopters:
Once we will figure out how to make units to target via default attack only specific type of units they would be able to target only flying enemies.
Removal from tc rooster i also accept. Both are needed.

Power range issues:
Axeman of dwarves must not have default power range, only with rune it receves some
Sabrecore rider: this case is fine due to low speed of unit and that you unable to move it in carriers
Orcs: they are fine to have big power range but some changes to damage distribution in their aoe for them is in plans for magic update. It will affect both basic aoe of units and trample effect — both innate aoe and gained via spell will receive nerfs.

Snakemen:
They will become full sub in future.

Fire tower of scalefolks:
Will be partially fixed during buildings update.
Heal rate is fine.
Burning weapon in future (same as poison weapon on poison tower) will require activation (with consuming action) and will have cooldown as well.

Dwarves gold mines and gem mines:
They are planned to get changes in construction cost during buildings update.
Cooldown increase for gold mine abilities is fine.

Dwarven leveling system tech costs:
4+6+8+10=28 turns cost total.
6+8+6+6=26 turns total. Thus this variant is not good.
Alas we are in searches for better balance of dwarven leveling system so maybe 6/8/9/10 turns will be fine.
We will see after changes to gold and gem mines.

Cavalry and anti-cav units relations:
1. Hoplites in future will get double damage on counter + first strike ability. Cavalry literally would be able to kill themselves onto hoplites.
2. Cavalry in most cases is purely assault unit. It is not supposed to be defencive (with exception of mounted shielders). So receiving from anti-cav units such amounts of damage is fine.
Alas cavalry in future will get extra ways to increase mobility.

Rams and tcs:
Forgot that issue actually — rams are not supposed to be able to enter into tc in unpacked form or transform into it in that form. They also are not supposed to be trained/constructed in unpacked form either.
On other hand summoned ents are fine since there will be magical way to deal with them even under delay vanishing aura — in magic update many races will get spell that reduces vanishing on target summoned unit by -2.
Ent summoning also will get some changes — moved to woodshaper, duration and cooldown changes, locked behind 3 techs, will get 2 weaker summon variants — spriggan and dendroid.

Berserker:
He is supposed to become part of slayers sub but i do not know when we will work on that so i'd say moving him from barracks to mega will be good enough.

Woodshaper:
This issue is fine for now but during buildings update it will be fixed.

Exorcism:
It is fine since ud have power in numbers in case of skeletons.
Also in future ud will get units who are not "undead" thus you can't use exorcism on them — vampires, apocalyptic knights, gargoyles, the veil and their chimerical experiments and many more including even twisted variants of humans/orcs/elves/dwarves/scalefolks.

Transports:
In plans but to balance well we need to rework naval fights first.

Flying lancers:
We will increase bonus to flying mounts for them.
But as for ability — it is not supposed to give extra attack. It gives extra aoe AND ability to pass through enemies.

Heal aura:
Will be changed during magic update.
As for now makingnit to affect only non-building type units is fine enough.

Defender lancers:
Will look later.

Giants and slingers:
This is very serious problem since on one hand as you stated here races with auras, buffs and such can kill with their slingers giants too fast.
On other side for races who do not own such buffs — elves, undeads — they are good enough but not too op.
Will look onto this later.
Upd.: with recent addition — fixed numerical bonuses which are not affected by basic attack value — we might actually fix this.
For now we will change bonus for slingers from current +300% down to [+100% and +40]. So even basic slinger will be able to deal 40 minimum damage to giants (not counting armor) while maxed ones will not receive too high extra damage output from auras.
These values are not final and might be changed after testing.

Warfell sub:
Yes it is more costly. It is intended.
Alas some cost decrease for crystal abilities unlocking techs is in plans.
Warfell sub in future also get few extra buffs:
1. 1st tier of warfell sub will be researchable without embassy in tc for 1 turn. For now it is planned to require writing but it might be changed so it will not require it for slightly higher cost. Tier 2 and 3 of unlocking warfell techs will still require writing and will be exclusive to embassy.
2. Some warfell units will be presented in tc as alternative to your base army.
Thus due to bigger variants to use for warfell along with making them available in tc they will not get any big changes to total cost.

Buildings with mend rate:
They will loose ability to help in construction or even mending buildings including self during buildings update.
Mend rate will be used to heal mechanical units and that's it.

All techs game, no upgrades game and so on:
All variants of game aside from "no techs at base + upgrades enabled" will be worked after magic uodate along with changing layout of gem shop.
Right now it is pointless due to big changes upcoming via those 2 updates.

Magic barriers:

in magic update many races will get spell that reduces vanishing on target summoned unit by -2.

This will work on them as well.

Throw polulu:
Hm? @Savra can you check that?

Laborers:
Probably they are missing "worker" category.

Healers able to repair with ability mechanical units:

We are fixing this bug but it reappears over and over again... I think it will be 8th or 9th time we are trying to finally fix it.
@Savra.

Magi bellator:
Must not get extra spell range via any means aside from warfell techs. Range 20 for sure is a bug.

Minotaurs + wagons:
They must be excluded from wagons. Forget to mention that to savra.

Hardened shutes tech:
In general i am planning to remove any unnecessary locks of techs for scalefolks and keepin only few specifically required ones.

[Laxus]

Considering how cheap fire tower is, can we make it so that giant units cannot enter fire tower?

[Vladneral]

Dwarven leveling system tech costs:
4+6+8+10=28 turns cost total.
6+8+6+6=26 turns total. Thus this variant is not good.
Alas we are in searches for better balance of dwarven leveling system so maybe 6/8/9/10 turns will be fine.

My bad - but i see no reason makes last lvl so costly: dwarfs dont get much power from them - 6/8/7/7 should be fine.

Cavalry and anti-cav units relations:
Cavalry in most cases is purely assault unit. It is not supposed to be defencive (with exception of mounted shielders). So receiving from anti-cav units such amounts of damage is fine.
Alas cavalry in future will get extra ways to increase mobility.

When i see cavalry playing as elf - i feel myself pretty safe. Glave dancer can be faster and can destroy two 4turn cavalry units in one turn and that unit cost only 3 turns !
Some elite variants cavalry is good but common variants is a joke already in medium game.

Exorcism:
It is fine since ud have power in numbers in case of skeletons.

Yes i have been mistaken - that 80% from max unit hp.
So 344 damage to Wyrm from 2 turn healer is fine then.

Flying lancers:
We will increase bonus to flying mounts for them.
But as for ability — it is not supposed to give extra attack. It gives extra aoe AND ability to pass through enemies.

I almost never see many fly units moving close to each other - whats the point of Aoe ? And i hardly can imagine how warrior will swing his lance for hit more than one target.

Healers able to repair with ability mechanical units:
We are fixing this bug but it reappears over and over again... I think it will be 8th or 9th time we are trying to finally fix it.

So far as i know this only dwarf problem now.

Minotaurs + wagons:
They must be excluded from wagons. Forget to mention that to savra.

Well minotaurs not the only one units that can do that - for example: Uruk berserker - 4speed + aura buff + whiplash + jump= 8 speed+ 5 speed wagon(without roads)+1 range from attack = 14 range cannon.
For me that even deadly.

[makazuwr32]

Dwarven leveling system tech costs:
4+6+8+10=28 turns cost total.
6+8+6+6=26 turns total. Thus this variant is not good.
Alas we are in searches for better balance of dwarven leveling system so maybe 6/8/9/10 turns will be fine.

My bad - but i see no reason makes last lvl so costly: dwarfs dont get much power from them - 6/8/7/7 should be fine.
I think best one would be 5/7/9/9 cost instead but with changes only to armor increasing techs. Other techs will not be touched. Along with increased costs for mines.

Cavalry and anti-cav units relations:
Cavalry in most cases is purely assault unit. It is not supposed to be defencive (with exception of mounted shielders). So receiving from anti-cav units such amounts of damage is fine.
Alas cavalry in future will get extra ways to increase mobility.

When i see cavalry playing as elf - i feel myself pretty safe. Glave dancer can be faster and can destroy two 4turn cavalry units in one turn and that unit cost only 3 turns !
Some elite variants cavalry is good but common variants is a joke already in medium game.
this unit will get slight nerf to bonuses — from 240% variant to 160% variant. Also cavalry as i stated above is purely offencive unit.
They even are planned to get extra movement on roads and up to +3 speed via special charge ability (but only land cav for now).

Exorcism:
It is fine since ud have power in numbers in case of skeletons.

Yes i have been mistaken - that 80% from max unit hp.
So 344 damage to Wyrm from 2 turn healer is fine then.
Yes since at some point for undeads it is possible to produce those dragons FASTER than human can produce those 2 turn healers. Also this ability will still get nerf by being locked behind specific holy sub.
Side note: undeads will get completely same ability but against holy units and with slightly lesser damage output.

Flying lancers:
We will increase bonus to flying mounts for them.
But as for ability — it is not supposed to give extra attack. It gives extra aoe AND ability to pass through enemies.

I almost never see many fly units moving close to each other - whats the point of Aoe ? And i hardly can imagine how warrior will swing his lance for hit more than one target.
This aoe ability is supposed to give for this unit usefulness when attacking ground units — for example ground cavalry since flying lancers have higher bonus against non-flyer cav than land/water lancers against non-land/non-water cav.

Healers able to repair with ability mechanical units:
We are fixing this bug but it reappears over and over again... I think it will be 8th or 9th time we are trying to finally fix it.

So far as i know this only dwarf problem now.

Minotaurs + wagons:
They must be excluded from wagons. Forget to mention that to savra.

Well minotaurs not the only one units that can do that - for example: Uruk berserker - 4speed + aura buff + whiplash + jump= 8 speed+ 5 speed wagon(without roads)+1 range from attack = 14 range cannon.
For me that even deadly.
Well what should we do than? Exclude berserkers as well? No. Minotaurs will get own shaman who can buff minotaurs specifically furthermore. Also they will become basically foot cavalry being vulnerable to pikes and other polearm (alas at lesser degree than actual cavalry).

[Vladneral]

I think i write possible decitions to every issue here. If you dont like them - i cant see other fast enough decisions for now.
I still disagree with some points but i have nothing to add also.
Should i post more issues with PRI# here ? Or enough for now.

[Stratego (dev)]

thanks for the PRI list!
however i tried to follow this mega thread but hard, so i start posting them one by one, as in this balance category one thread should only contain 1 topic.
i try to figure out the folow ups too - but i might have mistakes.

[Stratego (dev)]

*** maybe each topic its own thread, this will be pure chaos soon! ***

it is already, now i am making the topics.

i also locked this mega, and please post on the separate ones.
if i happen to miss the create a separate on one, please make a copy, put in all discussion from here, and post your suggestion to the end.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, i posted all from pri 1 .. pri 5.

please someone having time post the rest from pri 6.. pri 9 if u have time.

now i go check the topics if they are ready to change or still needs discussion of quick change.
will mark the implementation ready ones with ACCEPTED_SOLUTION in subject

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i have made all pri6..pri10.
all in separate topic and many that is already doable, some are still discussable.