Different skin for your favourite unit

If you have any new upgrade idea, than put it here.
It can be one of these: unit, structure, technology, effect.
Best if you can give: unit/structure icon, and unit/structure properties
And a description how you imagined the new upgrade.
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Stratego (dev)
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Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:04 am

I have received quite a bunch of requests about new "skin" of a unit, switchable.

as i understand for example: he/she loves the knight and its upgrades, so there is a need to use the same unit with new skins (same stats - different appearance), eg black-knight black-hknight black-cavalier

is this the needed option?

i have these ways of doing it:
a) simply making new units with same stats (less nice solution - but actually no coding solution)
b) making a json "reference" to another unit stats (so u dont need to set the same stats twice) - hacky... but cheap implementation too.
c) making in visuals some alternative visuality setting, and a new unit property says which visual is active on it, and somewhere some swich or some setting to seet which to be active - most nice, but most costy solution.

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Endru1241
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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:59 am

When I read about different skins I was imaging something different.
Just loading gfx on load from folder (similar to modder's assets) and filling missing images with default ones.
So this way would need adding somewhere in options additional button "load alternative images" which asks user to set folder.
Method to actually do it could probably be cut from modded assets loading. The same way - on app restart. It could also have similar text instead of "MODDED" e.g. "ALTERNATIVE IMAGES" to remind user it's not original.

This way there wouldn't even be any need for assets changing to have what someone wants - they would only need to ask for a proper filename on forum.

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:06 am

One more thing - adding it like that would allow for non-modder people who does graphic design to test new image (naming it as existing unit image, which has the same image size).

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:00 am

Endru1241 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:59 am
When I read about different skins I was imaging something different.
Just loading gfx on load from folder (similar to modder's assets) and filling missing images with default ones.
So this way would need adding somewhere in options additional button "load alternative images" which asks user to set folder.
Method to actually do it could probably be cut from modded assets loading. The same way - on app restart. It could also have similar text instead of "MODDED" e.g. "ALTERNATIVE IMAGES" to remind user it's not original.

This way there wouldn't even be any need for assets changing to have what someone wants - they would only need to ask for a proper filename on forum.

but this way other players will not see his units as "black night" that he obviously wanted.
so i thought (and understood) not modding like thing, but alternatively "skinned" units.

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:01 am

Endru1241 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:06 am
One more thing - adding it like that would allow for non-modder people who does graphic design to test new image (naming it as existing unit image, which has the same image size).
no i dont plan to make this "publicly shared" modding thingie.

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:19 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:04 am
I have received quite a bunch of requests about new "skin" of a unit, switchable.

as i understand for example: he/she loves the knight and its upgrades, so there is a need to use the same unit with new skins (same stats - different appearance), eg black-knight black-hknight black-cavalier

is this the needed option?

i have these ways of doing it:
a) simply making new units with same stats (less nice solution - but actually no coding solution)
b) making a json "reference" to another unit stats (so u dont need to set the same stats twice) - hacky... but cheap implementation too.
c) making in visuals some alternative visuality setting, and a new unit property says which visual is active on it, and somewhere some swich or some setting to seet which to be active - most nice, but most costy solution.
Well, I suggest another option
We will create new units (well that would be time consuming) with new skins. Make a new menu for skins in the main menu (like upgrade menu). User will purchase skins from their. Make a button "activate this skin". If this button is activated then the skin for that type of unit will appear in all games the user will play. But to change skin, unlike in option c, he/she will have to go to back to skin menu and set from there. But it'll not be implemented in any current game (at least in any current multiplayer game which is going on) rather it'll be implemented on any new game he starts.
Reason for this:
In multiplayer, eg:
If it is more than 3 players game. The color of p1,p2,p3 are blue, red, yellow respectively.
P1 has a normal skin of priest . P2 is able to view this unit, he knows it is enemy unit. But p1 then changes it's skin to a red color skin after turn 2 (and let's assume the small rope like thing which ties it's clothes whose colour changes according to owner player color also changes to red)
Now p2 is confused about that unit and assumes it to be his unit (I know you've added the owner player color display feature but let's assume that player is worried/in hurry/angry/ignorant or simply dumb or noob). Now this mistake can cause him losses and even defeat. Imagine This thing happening in mass number. It may make that player suffer even a defeat. People can use this as trick for their opponents.
OR on second thoughts maybe we can keep it the same way.
This will create discussions on strategy to exploit this properly. And will make the multiplayer more competitive.

But, even if we implement it on all units the player is playing, I think we don't need to make your codes more complicated by giving them the switch option, let them just go to the skin menu. And yes plz keep that feature of showing which skin is active.

Another thing which I suggest is to make skins costly eg:20 diamonds and add some skins which give bonus to the unit, not much though eg: cost of skin 50, units attack increase by "x"(eg:1 or 2), hp increase by "x"(eg:2-4).

And could you add specific packs for buying diamonds (keep it cheap though). Eg:
1$=200 diamonds
2$=500diamonds
Rest can be decided later

This will increase the funds you get. And here's marketing tip: if we keep the skins to be applied for multiplayer, we can keep earn money on this. People like to show off on their skins and all that stuff. Living example: PUBG, people buy that elite pass, crates,etc. It is the most earning game. But be sure to make the game balanced for the players who don't pay too.
We can use this funds to advertise our games.
What's your say stratego?

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:14 pm

modified stats: I dont plan to make any "bought" option to make a powerful units, that will lead to "this is a PAY TO WIN" app.

skin for gems: we can have some gems for skins tough, but i thought of 1 gem per skin - or ome very cheap way of getting those.

skin "color": you misunderstand: team coloring will also be "painted" on new skins, so if you play red you will always get a red priest, but you can change its robe color for instance or can wear a hat, or even can hold a bible or anything like that, or even can be an "angel" with wings instead of a priest (still not able to fly) - but maybe that is too much of a skinning :)

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:19 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:14 pm
modified stats: I dont plan to make any "bought" option to make a powerful units, that will lead to "this is a PAY TO WIN" app.

skin for gems: we can have some gems for skins tough, but i thought of 1 gem per skin - or ome very cheap way of getting those.

skin "color": you misunderstand: team coloring will also be "painted" on new skins, so if you play red you will always get a red priest, but you can change its robe color for instance or can wear a hat, or even can hold a bible or anything like that, or even can be an "angel" with wings instead of a priest (still not able to fly) - but maybe that is too much of a skinning :)
Nope I am not saying to make it a pay to win app, it would be rather "pay to look good". In Pubg too, they only sell clothes, they don't affect the gameplay, at least they don't add any extra hp, attack, accuracy, etc. Lets scrap the modified stats idea. I guess we should do some advertisements (google ads,etc). Skins won't affect the gameplay, but it will just make your unit look cool and well maybe we can adjust the cost as per the skin. I think we can keep few average (not sooo good looking skins) bit cheap. And some, legendary looking, very cool,etc. skins costlier. Maybe we can put offers like if you gather 20 players, you get "x" legendary type of skin. We need to focus on promotion of our games. Well I think Aos has enough (that doesn't mean we shouldn't target higher) but other games like AOF, Aow(well we can keep some tanks skins, hehe they will look great) needs promotion.
Well I'll create a format for that menu, well I'll have to think will send to you in 2-3 days (sorry for that long time, gotta work on the tutorial too :cry: )

I suggest we can keep most of it very cheap but some really cool art, very expensive.
To adjust the price can I get total number of gems we can earn from each game. We'll adjust cost according to that in each game.
Well here's my layout for skins in upgrade menu.

1. Common Skins: low level skins, which change very little of the basic unit. Rough Cost: 2-4 (well one is too cheap)
2. Uncommon skins: low-medium level skins, changes a bit more than the common skins on basic units. Rough cost: 3-6
3. Scarce Skins: medium level skins, changes considerable amount than the basic unit skin. Rough cost:6-9
4. Scarcer Skins: Medium-high level skins, changes are more than scarce skins (better name can be given). Rough cost: 9-12
5. Rare skins: High level skins, changes are significant, units look cool. Rough cost: 12-15
6. Original skins: High-Unique level skins, units look super cool. Rough cost: 15-18
7. Unique skins: Unique level skins, units look unique (better than original), they can contain few skins with animations like legendary skins but less cooler. Rough cost:19-21
8. Legendary Skins: Legendary units, your unit stands out, this unit has active animation, eg: flowing lava gif on shields,etc. Rough Cost: 25- 30 ( It has animation in it, come on lets keep this at a little higher price).
9. Seasonal skins: Can contain all above types, prices would be 1-3 diamonds more or maybe same price.
10. Limited skins: only limited number of such skins will can be purchased, eg: 100,etc. These can also have the types from #1 to #8. Maybe we can increase this type of skins price a bit.

To decide which skin will go in which category, create a user group. Maybe of 5-15 members (let me in too, plz). When user's will create such skins this group will classify them into these categories. And as if usual you have the power to make changes in our decision. We can start with AOS, since we've more forumers playing that and hence we would receive skins fast. Well my I've got another idea, how about adding female version of our basic unit?

skin coloe : sorry I misunderstood, well that priest with wings look more like an angel lol.

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:34 pm

you are running too forward, here i only want to figure out the "needs" and define that :)

pubg: i know how pubg skinning goes, and yes i thought of a similar thing modifying no stats only appearance - but visible to all players as your unit wears it

female: sure that is also an option of reskin.

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:23 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:34 pm
you are running too forward, here i only want to figure out the "needs" and define that :)

pubg: i know how pubg skinning goes, and yes i thought of a similar thing modifying no stats only appearance - but visible to all players as your unit wears it

female: sure that is also an option of reskin.
Sorry, my bad, I went too forward, I'm sorry for that.

I think that option c should be the best one.
Well can skins with animations work in this option too?
Or we can create skins with animations separately with same stats. (will save your work)
Again sorry for that, but is the idea nice? Maybe we'll create another topic on this later.

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:09 pm

animations: sure, not only skin but efault "skins" also can be animated eg. cannoneer has animated image and some others too.

ideas are good, and we can think of them later!

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:46 pm

Please dont make the skins buyable, it is already hard to get all units (even though getting the units is more vital than their appereance)
~Gral.Sturnn

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:55 pm

Gral.Sturnn wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:46 pm
Please dont make the skins buyable, it is already hard to get all units (even though getting the units is more vital than their appereance)
Well I was thinking of making other campaigns in AOS reward gem. Many don't have them, since they were too much in Aos.
And if you're concerned about AOWW, we will see that later, but first ws need to code that kinda script. We'll decide about other factors later!
Anyways
Have a great day!

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:17 pm

All campaigns in AoS reward gems. The same with scenarios, historical battles and history of Hungary separate campaign. Only maps from fans and tutorials are excluded among single player pre-made maps.

Going back to opinion about first question.
I don't know if it's 2 or 3 option, but I believe alternative textures settings should be in separate jsons from units and only affect them (like techs) changing visuals only.
Reasons:
- it would have separate id and name for easier shoplist placement
- there could be packs - one allternative json has few definitions for few specific units
- it's more elegant data structure wise

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:33 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:17 pm
All campaigns in AoS reward gems. The same with scenarios, historical battles and history of Hungary separate campaign. Only maps from fans and tutorials are excluded among single player pre-made maps.

Going back to opinion about first question.
I don't know if it's 2 or 3 option, but I believe alternative textures settings should be in separate jsons from units and only affect them (like techs) changing visuals only.
Reasons:
- it would have separate id and name for easier shoplist placement
- there could be packs - one allternative json has few definitions for few specific units
- it's more elegant data structure wise
Yep I meant to say the fan ones (well you reminded of the tutorials too). We need to more donations, but we'll also make schemes for players for these skins. Eg: invite 10 players, then you get "x" unique skin, etc. Don't worry about that, I've a full proof plan. We'll discuss that later not in this topic, another about it when stratego creates one.

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:39 am

I dont want to make this more complicated but lets say i want to make a 16th century skin pack.

what units would said pack reskin?

Would the player need to buy unit per unit or just the entire pack?

Also are you planning to make skins free to use in map editor?
~Gral.Sturnn

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:53 am

Gral.Sturnn wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:39 am

what units would said pack reskin?

Would the player need to buy unit per unit or just the entire pack?
Well they will be unit per unit. While you can buy pack (if any available) at a bit cheaper price. Eg: there are to 10 uncommon skins. Each cost is 10 diamonds (well it may fluctuate, this is just an example), if you buy them all separately then you'll have to pay total 100 diamonds. But if you buy an entire pack, you'll have to pay 75 diamonds (or something equivalent). So it'll be cheaper to buy in packs.
Gral.Sturnn wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:39 am

Also are you planning to make skins free to use in map editor?
Well, I dunno about that and I recommend not to do that. This way skins will be easily available without even purchasing them. Skins are an extra element. It'll allow you to skin your favourite unit. But we can design in such a way that, it just be able to satisfy your needs while it'll not satisfy your greed (of owning a lot of them). For this we can add some crates or something (for randomized stuff, you get more here) and/or make some cheap diamond packages. Well we've to keep the element in such a way that, you can even satisfy your greed (of owning a lot of them) by investing some heavy time in it, while these payment options will give it boost (you can instantly get them) and also they'll be a help to the dev. Maybe, he can divert some of this earning and invest them into some Advertise campaign (google ads).
Well maybe with special permission we can use them in map-editor. Note: and this permission should be granted for the trailer, we need some trailer and we can showcase this feature!)

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Re: Different skin for your favourite unit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:13 pm

Gral.Sturnn wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:46 pm
Please dont make the skins buyable, it is already hard to get all units (even though getting the units is more vital than their appereance)
here i dont agree, this is an optional thing, no need to buy any of the skinpack if u dont have gems for it. so we should not consider it as the "upgrades"

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