Dwarves rework

Here you can discuss what kind of races should be in the game.
User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sat May 23, 2020 6:34 pm

..., I wonder what a combination of the 2 would look like.

User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7080
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Alexander82 » Sat May 23, 2020 11:49 pm

I really like the lower one, the only problem is that it seems more like a human (in terms of proportions it looks taller)
Age of Fantasy design leader

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 3:36 am

I measured it off of our dwarves in game, it's only slightly taller, but that's just the helm.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 3:37 am

Just checked, yes they are shorter then the basic humans.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 6:48 am

How's this for starters?
Attachments
Defender shield guard.png
Defender shield guard.png (1.77 KiB) Viewed 284 times

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4825
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun May 24, 2020 8:11 am

For now we do not have strict plan for them but Defenders definately must have next unit types (no names for now, also i do not like "Defender" at the beginning of each name, try something more unique):
Shielder (with big shield)
Normal one (with shield + normal weapon, shield is smaller than shielder's one)
Pike/halberdier (anti-cav infantry role)
Crossbowman (they are defenders thus they must know how to deal with heavy armored units)
Ranged unit with rifle
Rune Smith (unique type caster that can give permanent bonus stats)
Mounted knight, anti-infantry
Mounted knight, anti-cavalry
Mounted knight, ranged (with gun)

Boars will be for main race only, bears for Slayers.

Defenders must not be fast thus no bears for them. Mammoths will be best.

As for image - it looks good but maybe change pose for axe holding. i do not like it being above head.

User avatar
Jerfoxman
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 1:37 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Jerfoxman » Sun May 24, 2020 8:18 am

Mammoth will be like the human elephant or not?
I think like a rhino rider
Don't work smart work intelligent

User avatar
DoomsdayDragonfire
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:20 am
Location: Terra - Brasil

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sun May 24, 2020 3:19 pm

Mammoths are bigger than elephants, mastodons are the mid term, slightly bigger than elephants but smaller than mammoths... Btw, i dunno if that is a good idea even if they were elephants... Defenders would look like fleas on them.

I think they don't need mounts, but if they do, they could use of some sort of armored turtle/tortoises or go straight to some vehicles.
Stay Awesome!
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4825
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun May 24, 2020 4:52 pm

Dwarven common land must be snow mountains and thus furry mammoths would be ideal mounts for them.

In terms of look - probably similar to human elephants but slightly bigger and furry (ofc with riders). As for inspiration - i want something like this for them:
Image

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 5:16 pm

The shielders weapon is a mace, not an axe.

As special mount yes, a mammoth would be fine, but for the base cavalry a razor back boar would be fine, it's not going to be fast because of it being well armoured, but it would be powerful, focusing on strength and resilience more then speed.

The base dwarves have ordinary boars.

Image

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 5:25 pm

I will make:
Shielder
Hammerer
Riflemen
Crossbowmen
Phalanxer
heavy Lancer
Heavy cavalry
Mammoth rider
Captain

And that should be fine for now until later.

That way the have the basics ready.
Attachments
Defender shield guard.png
Defender shield guard.png (1.61 KiB) Viewed 236 times

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 5:40 pm

Phalanx guard.
Attachments
Defender phalanx.png
Defender phalanx.png (1.51 KiB) Viewed 233 times

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 6:52 pm

Something like this is more like what I see for base cavalry of defenders.
Attachments
Razor back guard.png
Razor back guard.png (2.15 KiB) Viewed 227 times

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 6:58 pm

Updated.
Attachments
Razor back guard.png
Razor back guard.png (2.17 KiB) Viewed 222 times

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Sun May 24, 2020 7:29 pm

I don't know what compelled me to look this up but apparently th is is a thing in Greek mythology. :lol:
Chrysaor:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/chrysaor

Image

Might be something for main dwarves. :lol:

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4825
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun May 24, 2020 9:29 pm

Savra wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:16 pm
The shielders weapon is a mace, not an axe.

As special mount yes, a mammoth would be fine, but for the base cavalry a razor back boar would be fine, it's not going to be fast because of it being well armoured, but it would be powerful, focusing on strength and resilience more then speed.

The base dwarves have ordinary boars.

Image
There must not be any "basic cavalry" for defenders. They all are special forces.
It sounds like "special forces" inside "special forces" inside "special forces".

Also i prefer to make mammoths only cavalry for defenders.

Shield guard and phalanx are great.
Savra wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:52 pm
Something like this is more like what I see for base cavalry of defenders.
This doesn't look that tough for defenders. It looks like tier 4 of boar riders.
Can't say that it would be as heavy as imperial knight. It would have just from its look to have weaker stats than imperial knight.

Imperial knight looks completely different from normal knight if you didn't notice. Not as another tier of normal knight.

Try to make 3 mammoth riders:
Mammoth guard
Mammoth lancer
Mammoth hawkeye
Savra wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:25 pm
I will make:
Shielder
Hammerer
Riflemen
Crossbowmen
Phalanxer
heavy Lancer
Heavy cavalry
Mammoth rider
Captain

And that should be fine for now until later.

That way the have the basics ready.
Do not need to put literally all offencive units into one sub.
Hammerer would fit better for slayers.

Also as i mentioned above boars (even razor back boars) won't fit for defenders as for me. It is like asking to give ponies for imperials in place of their horses, gryphons and dragons.

Reason for mammths is because it fits perfectly for defender's role:
Big and tanky mount that must hold off enemy masses. It must not have high speed or some special mobility. Also if i would ask whom you would prefer as mount that must be focused on "strength and recilence" whom you will choose:
Boar that has base hp around 15-18 (maybe up to 22-24 because it is that special boar)?
Or mammoth that has base hp around 120 (maybe even higher because it must be more tough than elephants for sure)?

Ofc hp of mounted unit will also be added as well.
Savra wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:29 pm
I don't know what compelled me to look this up but apparently th is is a thing in Greek mythology. :lol:
Chrysaor:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/chrysaor
Image

Might be something for main dwarves. :lol:
Looks too chimerical and strange.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Mon May 25, 2020 3:54 pm

The problem I have with the mammoth idea is the ranged one mainly, we don't necessarily need that one being that they would already have enough, not even elves have a tanky ranged unit and ranged is their speciality (which reminds me of something), another thing is dwarves shouldn't focus on cavalry either.

I'll agree (reluctantly, and for the sake of time) to make the other 2 mammoths but I won't make the 3rd. Also the rune Smith should be for main race, and shouldn't have perma buff abilities, we don't even have perma debuff abilities so why do we need this. Their fine with un-disenchantable abilities, that should be enough.

As for hammerer, the defenders can have it, it won't take away from the slayers anything because slayers would have plenty of options to choose from anyway. The dwarven hammer guard will take on a more defensive role with better armour, and health while the slayer one would have better attack, and other things.

As for the flying boar, in Greek mythology it was pegasusus twin from medusa. Here it would serve no different role for dwarves then the pegasus knight does for humans.I

I might make the defenders cloud breaker cannon though.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Mon May 25, 2020 6:09 pm

This was rather difficult. But here's one for starters.
Attachments
Mammoth rider.png
Mammoth rider.png (2.89 KiB) Viewed 160 times

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4825
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon May 25, 2020 9:13 pm

Savra wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 3:54 pm
The problem I have with the mammoth idea is the ranged one mainly, we don't necessarily need that one being that they would already have enough, not even elves have a tanky ranged unit and ranged is their speciality (which reminds me of something), another thing is dwarves shouldn't focus on cavalry either.

I'll agree (reluctantly, and for the sake of time) to make the other 2 mammoths but I won't make the 3rd. Also the rune Smith should be for main race, and shouldn't have perma buff abilities, we don't even have perma debuff abilities so why do we need this. Their fine with un-disenchantable abilities, that should be enough.

As for hammerer, the defenders can have it, it won't take away from the slayers anything because slayers would have plenty of options to choose from anyway. The dwarven hammer guard will take on a more defensive role with better armour, and health while the slayer one would have better attack, and other things.

As for the flying boar, in Greek mythology it was pegasusus twin from medusa. Here it would serve no different role for dwarves then the pegasus knight does for humans.I

I might make the defenders cloud breaker cannon though.
Cannons would be for gnomes and for main parg of dwarves only.

As for permanent buffs - they would be costly: you will need to make 3-8 runes (each rune is same but they wi have low hp and low construction rate) and after that you need to sacrifice them in order to use 1 perma-buffing ability. This rune smith would only be able to start construction of runes.
Ofc rune smith will also have temporary buffs as well so you will choose - either make runes for permanent buffs or give temporary buffs to your units. Permanent buffs definately must be costly.

As for flying mount of dwarves i have few ideas...
Not a boar, please, though.

Ranged mammoth is fine because 1. It would be costly, 2. It would be compared to human elephant archer.
Elves by the way have alternative variant for "ranged tanky unit" - ent warrior the walking tower.
Also cavalry will not be dwarven speciality thus i think mammoth riders all must have permanently speed 2 (i general it is fine to gicve for dwarves cavalry but it must be more costly or weaker than comparable to them cavalry of other races and definately slower).

As for mammoth rider - i definately love it. Only i think eyes for mammoth itself could be made a bit bigger and more seen. That is only change for me that is required.

Agree with hammerer though.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Tue May 26, 2020 4:28 pm

The mammoth rider was designed based off the elephant in game, the war elephant only has 1 pixel eyes too. So I think those are fine.

As for the rune smith, the only perm abilities I think would be fine is it they are non stackable ones, and ones that can't be stacked with others, e.g. Lifelink enchanted weapon can't be stacked with chilling weapon, being that the runes are embedded in the weapon or armour such things should only have one option, so dwarves can only get 1 armour rune, and one weapon rune placed on individual units and not multiple. The cost can easily be worked around via miners.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Tue May 26, 2020 5:44 pm

Crossbow guardian.
Attachments
Crossbow guardian.png
Crossbow guardian.png (1.63 KiB) Viewed 103 times

User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7080
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Alexander82 » Tue May 26, 2020 5:48 pm

I think it is better to make the unit's concept before making the images.
We have a planned lineup for both defenders and slayers so I would start from those units and later we might consider expanding it.

Anyway I'm finding these somehow confusing. It is not the image quality but maybe the fact that everything is dark doesn't help really recognizing all the units.
Age of Fantasy design leader

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Tue May 26, 2020 6:21 pm

I'll try and brighten things up a bit, my adamentium colour palette has only dark side and bright side with one middle colour (3 dark, 3 light) it's all on the units but I'll see about clearing that up and maybe expanding the midway colour.

As for units concept, I don't even know what you have suggested other then the riflemen and shielder.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Wed May 27, 2020 4:59 pm

Just thought of something... How is a lancer mammoth rider an effective anti cavalry unit when the mammoth itself is strong enough to plow through any cavalry without problems? I mean, the lancer is way up on top making it so that they can only poke at on coming cavalry and not simply joust them so that being said a lancer mammoth rider would be no different then the ordinary mammoth rider. I'll just switch it with the other I guess.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Wed May 27, 2020 5:02 pm

Actually, theirs nothing really holding them back from mounting a cannon up their is there? So long as the cannon is small enough and not the size of the mammoth itself it should be fine in theory.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Dwarves rework

Post by Savra » Wed May 27, 2020 5:52 pm

Another.
Attachments
Rifleman shielded.png
Rifleman shielded.png (1.74 KiB) Viewed 23 times
Rifle guardian.png
Rifle guardian.png (1.54 KiB) Viewed 23 times

Post Reply

Return to “Races”