(disclaimer: these numbers might be way off from balanced, it's Endru's role to have a headache while trying to make them balanced if he agrees with the ideas, not mine , my calculations were not done on a spreadsheet where I could more easily compare things, and I don't have nearly as much experience as him in neither the way the game works nor with balancing in general, so I might have overlooked a lot of things when doing them)
- Mending: imo a lot of the problems with the current state of siege vs defenses arise from things being repaired too fast once damaged, specially by master builders, so I think there are some changes that would help in this regard:
- Remove the mend bonus from master builders' dedicated repair (maybe even make it decrease their mend rate by a bit?), they already get their overall repair rate doubled by having 2 actions
- Decrease mending rates of towers, forts and megas in general (I'll put some more detailed numbers on each of them below)
- Fire Arrows: They are in a weird state, on one side, they are a bit too strong against megas, siege machines and specially ships, on the other, they are a bit too weak against fortifications and armored siege machines, so what I thought for them was:
- Decrease the burning bonus against megas from 2200% (+88) to 1900% (+76)
- Increase the burning bonus against fortifications and armored siege machines from 50% (+2) to 100% (+4)
- Decrease the burning bonus against ships and regular siege machines from 50% (+2) to 25% (+1)
- Decrease the fire arrow bonus against ships from 100% to 50%
- Keep the fire arrow bonus against great ships and anti-ship ships at 100%
- Give forts, fortresses, castles and high castles the same bonuses on their attacks as fire archers (with some changes detailed in their sections)
- Trebuchets: imho trebuchets are way too strong right now, their limitation of being only able to be produced in megas only makes it so that whoever rushes a mega first has an advantage (and gives huge disadvantages to some players in maps where not every starting position has enough room for a mega), and the area damage buff to them increased this problem, since a normal trebuchet in stand mode with area damage can now 2-shot an unupgraded castle.
They also have the longest range of any attack in the game (tied with high castle's trebuchet shot, which... is a trebuchet shot without the area damage), cost only 6 turns to make, and are hard to kill at a range. My suggestions is to change them to be a long ranged, medium damage, spreaded damage, anti-building units:
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damage comparison: without any other techs{ trebuchet stand vs monastery: 409 damage vs 800 hp (2 shots, 51.125% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs castle: 408 damage vs 1000 hp (3 shots, 40.8% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs high castle: 405 damage vs 1500 hp (4 shots, 27% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs fort: 106 damage vs 340 hp (4 shots, ~31.18% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs monastery: 491 damage vs 800 hp (2 shots, 61.375% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs castle: 490 damage vs 1000 hp (3 shots, 49% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs high castle: 487 damage vs 1500 hp (4 shots, ~32.47% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs fort: 128 damage vs 340 hp (3 shots, ~37.65% hp per shot) } with area damage, aiming for maximum damage{ trebuchet stand vs monastery: 652 damage vs 800 hp (2 shots, 81.5% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs castle: 648 damage vs 1000 hp (2 shots, 64.8% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs high castle: 636 damage vs 1500 hp (3 shots, 42.4% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs fort: 142 damage vs 340 hp (3 shots, ~41.76% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs monastery: 782 damage vs 800 hp (2 shots, 97.75% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs castle: 778 damage vs 1000 hp (2 shots, 77.8% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs high castle: 766 damage vs 1500 hp (2 shots, ~51.07% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs fort: 172 damage vs 340 hp (2 shots, ~50.59% hp per shot) } with area damage, aiming for minimum damage (same damage for forts because they are 2x2 instead of 2x3){ trebuchet stand vs monastery: 571 damage vs 800 hp (2 shots, 71.375% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs castle: 568 damage vs 1000 hp (2 shots, 56.8% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs high castle: 559 damage vs 1500 hp (3 shots, ~37.27% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs fort: 142 damage vs 340 hp (3 shots, ~41.76% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs monastery: 685 damage vs 800 hp (2 shots, 85.625% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs castle: 682 damage vs 1000 hp (2 shots, 68.2% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs high castle: 673 damage vs 1500 hp (3 shots, ~44.87% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs fort: 172 damage vs 340 hp (2 shots, ~50.59% hp per shot) } with masonry and massive walls{ trebuchet stand vs monastery: 409 damage vs 1608 hp (4 shots, ~25.44% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs castle: 408 damage vs 2010 hp (5 shots, ~20.30% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs high castle: 405 damage vs 3015 hp (8 shots, ~13.43% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs fort: 106 damage vs 682 hp (7 shots, ~15.54% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs monastery: 491 damage vs 1608 hp (4 shots, ~30.53% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs castle: 490 damage vs 2010 hp (5 shots, ~24.38% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs high castle: 487 damage vs 3015 hp (7 shots, ~16.15% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs fort: 128 damage vs 682 hp (6 shots, ~18.77% hp per shot) } with masonry, massive walls and area damage, aiming for maximum damage{ trebuchet stand vs monastery: 652 damage vs 1608 hp (3 shots, ~40.55% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs castle: 648 damage vs 2010 hp (4 shots, ~32.24% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs high castle: 636 damage vs 3015 hp (5 shots, ~21.16% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs fort: 142 damage vs 682 hp (5 shots, ~20.82% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs monastery: 782 damage vs 1608 hp (3 shots, ~48.63% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs castle: 778 damage vs 2010 hp (3 shots, ~38.71% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs high castle: 766 damage vs 3015 hp (4 shots, ~25.41% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs fort: 172 damage vs 682 hp (4 shots, ~25.22% hp per shot) } with masonry, massive walls and area damage, aiming for minimum damage{ trebuchet stand vs monastery: 571 damage vs 1608 hp (3 shots, ~35.51% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs castle: 568 damage vs 2010 hp (4 shots, ~28.26% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs high castle: 559 damage vs 3015 hp (6 shots, ~18.54% hp per shot) trebuchet stand vs fort: 142 damage vs 682 hp (5 shots, ~20.82% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs monastery: 685 damage vs 1608 hp (3 shots, ~42.60% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs castle: 682 damage vs 2010 hp (3 shots, ~33.93% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs high castle: 673 damage vs 3015 hp (5 shots, ~22.32% hp per shot) heavy trebuchet stand vs fort: 172 damage vs 682 hp (4 shots, ~25.22% hp per shot) }
- decrease trebuchet damage from 6 to 5
- decrease trebuchet stand damage from 10 to 6
- decrease heavy trebuchet damage from 7 to 6
- decrease heavy trebuchet stand damage from 12 to 7
- give all trebuchets power range 1 by default, with powerRangePenaltyPercent = 5 and powerRangePowerDrop = 0.5, so 100%/5% without area damage and 100%/25%/12.5% with area damage
- slightly increase their bonuses against U_SHIPS, U_SIEGE_MACHINE, U_SIEGE_MACHINE_ARMORED and U_SHIP_SIEGE_RANGE so that they don't lose that much damage against those (also probably against U_UKNOWN_MACHINE too lol)
- increase trebuchet cost from 6 to 7
- decrease bonus against U_MEGA_BUILDINGS from 4000% to 3000%
- Fort: with weakened trebuchets, I feel like forts will become too strong right away, so I think they should be changed so that they are weaker but cheaper, not defensive high castles like they are now (really, check the damage comparisons, they tank almost as much as a high castle against current trebuchets):
- decrease their base hp from 340 to 200
- decrease their construction aff from 152% to 135% (from 16 turns to 11 turns for ambidextria builders)
- decrease their mend aff from 220% to 180% (from 11 to 8 turns to fully repair with normal builders, same 4 turns with master builders)
- decrease the cannon damage from 20 to 14
- increase cannon range from 6 to 7
- increase armor from 4 to 5
- following fire arrow changes, copy bonuses from fire archer, reduce their damage from 6 to 4, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can be benefited from ranged damage techs
- Castle: following the trebuchet, mending and fire arrow changes:
- increase armor from 2 to 4
- keep the mend aff the same, I think the removal of the mend rate bonus from master builders already takes care enough here
- copy bonuses from fire archers, decrease their damage from 6 to 5, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- High Castle: following the trebuchet, mending and fire arrow changes:
- decrease their trebuchet shot damage from 8 to 6, but make it deal area damage with 1 range, with damage being 100%/25% for target tile/adjacent tiles
- increase armor from 5 to 6
- keep the mend rate, I think the removal of the mend rate bonus from master builders already takes care enough here
- copy bonuses from fire archers, decrease their damage from 8 to 6, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- Fortress: following the mending and fire arrow changes:
- decrease their mend aff from 150% to 130% (from 5 to 6 turns to fully repair with normal builders, from 2 to 3 turns with master builders)
- copy bonuses from fire archers, decrease their damage from 6 to 5, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- Guard Tower:
- decrease their mend aff from 200% to 150% (from 2 to 3 turns to fully repair with normal builders, from 1 to 2 turns with master builders)
- copy bonuses from normal archers, decrease their damage from 5 to 4, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- Reinforced Guard Tower:
- decrease their mend aff from 220% to 180% (from 2 to 3 turns to fully repair with normal builders, from 1 to 2 turns with master builders)
- copy bonuses from normal archers, decrease their damage from 6 to 5, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- Crossbow Tower:
- decrease their mend aff from 175% to 150% (same 3 turns to fully repair with normal builders , from 1 to 2 turns with master builders)
- copy bonuses from pavaise crossbows, decrease their damage from 8 to 6, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- Longbow Tower:
- decrease their mend aff from 175% to 150% (same 3 turns to fully repair with normal builders, from 1 to 2 turns with master builders)
- copy bonunes from normal archers, decrease their damage from 6 to 5, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- Shooting Tower:
- decrease their mend aff from 150% to 120% (from 3 to 4 turns to fully repair with normal builders, from 1 to 2 turns with master builders)
- copy bonunes from yumi samurais, decrease their damage from 4 to 3, but add U_ARCHERS to their trnCategories, so that they can benefited from ranged damage techs
- Ballista Tower:
- decrease their mend aff from 250% to 150% (from 4 to 6 turns to fully repair with normal builders, from 2 to 3 turns with master builders)
- Cannon Tower: imo cannon towers are too strong from the get-go, I think they should be weaker and then have an upgrade that gives them the firepower they have currently:
- keep the mend aff the same, I think the removal of the mend rate bonus from master builders already takes care enough here
- decrease damage from 20 to 16
- create an upgraded version (similar to the way guard tower is upgradeable to reinforced guard tower) that has 20 damage and a little bit more hp and p. armor
- Cannoneers: I think the only thing they might be needing is a softer version of the nerf their naval counterparts got, that is, make them unable to attack after moving
- Catapults: I think there should be a little more separation between their role and the role of trebuchets, my idea is to make them somewhat like a general purpose hwacha:
- increase their base power range to 2, with powerRangePenaltyPercent = 60 and powerRangePowerDrop = 0.25, so that their damage is 100%/60%/45% without area damage, and 100%/80%/60%/45% with area damage
- decrease catapult damage from 10 to 9
- decrease stand mode catapult and catapult ship damage from 16 to 14
- decrease heavy catapult damage from 12 to 10
- decrease stand mode heavy catapult and heavy catapult ship damage from 19 to 16
- decrease bonus against U_MEGA_BUILDINGS from 520% to 400%
- decrease bonus against U_STRUCTURE and U_SHIP_LINE from 125% to 100%
- decrease bonus against U_SHIP_SIEGE_RANGE from 75% to 50%
- Ballistas: They are also in a weird spot right now, since they are near useless early on (except for ballista ships), have too low mobility without a wagon and/or roads to help them, and only really become useful later on with 7 range siege mode, so my idea is to make them a more anti-siege anti-foot weapons:
- remove siege mode entirely (?)
- increase turn cost of ballista and heavy ballista from 4 to 5
- increase stand mode ballista range from 5 to 6
- increase stand mode heavy ballista range from 5 to 7
- increase ballista hp from 12 to 15
- increase heavy ballista hp from 14 to 20
- increase stand mode ballista hp from 14 to 20
- increase stand mode heavy ballista hp from 17 to 26
- increase ballista construct aff from 7% to 8% (from 12 to 13 turns to build with builders)
- increase heavy ballista construct aff from 8% to 11% (from 12 to 13 turns to build with builders)
- increase powerRangePenaltyPercent from 72 to 75
- decrease speed of ballista and heavy ballista from 2 to 1
- add a new mode: packed ballista, that has speed 4, and make them lose actions on move (so that the 2 actions don't allow for stand mode -> packed mode -> move -> stand mode again in a single turn)
- increase bonus against U_SIEGE_MACHINE from 0% to 50%
- increase bonus against U_SIEGE_MACHINE_ARMORED from 100% to 200%
- increase bonus against U_FOOT from 0% to 10%
- Rams: I think with the changes discussed in their thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12034) they will be fine.
- Siege Towers: While way more balanced than they were previously due to not being as spammable, I still think they are a bit too strong from the start, so my idea is to make them weaker initially, but get upgrades that gets them stronger than current, similar to rams:
- decrease hp from 120 to 100
- decrease mend aff from 180% to 150% (same 5 turns to repair with normal builders, from 2 to 3 with master builders)
- decrease p. armor from 15 to 12
- decrease carry capacity from 3 to 2
- first upgrade has 120 hp and 14 p. armor
- second upgrade has 150 hp and 16 p. armor, and gets the carry capacity increased back to 3
- suggestion for new unit: Encampment
- see main thread: viewtopic.php?f=82&t=12085
- suggestion (not mine) for new unit: Scaling Ladders
- see main thread: viewtopic.php?f=82&t=8335
- Siege Mantlets: I really think they should be a little easier to kill in melee range, given that they can be heavily spammed
- decrease hp from 25 to 24
- Turtle Machines: imo they are fine at the moment, they are monsters when in range, but it's hard to get close enough to anything with them due to their limited mobility
- Hwachas: after their weapon effect bugs are fixed, I think they will be fine too (currently they are unrealiable unless you have a stationary target to fire at, or at least 4 or 5 units around another one, so that the odds of hitting at least one of them are high)
Edit: after more calculations, I still thought trebuchets were a bit too strong, specially against megas, so now I've added an increase to their cost and decrease to bonus damage against megas.