Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

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makazuwr32
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Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 am

I suggest to update current unit type list, @Stratego (dev), @Alexander82, @General Brave:
Many units will have several categories.

In descriptions of each type i describe only usual weaknesses of it.

Basic unit types:
1. Worker, Cavalry units will always have bonus to them, can construct buildings, leave basic corpse after death (non-undead ones).
Unit list:
Worker (human)
Skeleton worker
Ent worker
Goblin slave
Dwarven worker
Dwarven warsmith
Dwarven engeneer
Kobold laborer
Armored Kobold laborer
Gold dragon


2. Infantry, Cavalry and archers usually have bonus against these, leave basic corpse after death (non-undead ones).
Unit list:
Human warrior
Elite human warror
Human axe thrower (changed)
Double Swordsman
Imperial Swordsman (changed)
Templar (changed)
Warmage (changed)
Elf swordsman
Sword Dancer
Merman (changed)
Skeleton fighter
Armored skeleton fighter
Ghoul (changed)
Zombie (changed)
Cemetery reaper (changed)
Cemetery biting reaper (changed)
Specrtal rider (without horse)
Phantom crusher (changed)
Phantom swordsman (changed)
Orc warrior
Elite orc warrior
Master orc warrior
Armored orc warrior
Orc axe thrower (changed from weird one)
Elite orc axe thrower (changed from weird one)
Master orc axe thrower (changed from weird one)
Merlock (changed)
Elite merlock (changed)
Master merlock (changed)
Uruk axeman (changed)
Uruk axe 1 (changed)
Uruk axe 2 (changed)
Uruk axe 3 (changed)
Goblin spiker (changed)
Elite goblin spiker (changed)
Master goblin spiker (changed)
Goblin spearman (changed)
Elite goblin spearman (changed)
Master goblin spearman (changed)
Dwarven warrior
Hammer fighter
Dwarven rifleman (changed)
Kobold warrior (changed)
Armored kobold warrior (changed)
Highborn kobold maceman (changed)
Lizard Blademan (changed)
Armored lizard blademan (changed)
Highborn kobold swordman (changed)
Komodo dragon (changed)
Snakeman duel swordman (changed)

Campain only (currently):
Prince
Faramir (melee)
Gollum
Hobbit
Sam
Merry
Pippin
Frodo (in both forms)
Mordor orc warrior


3. Archer, skirmisher type units and cavalry have bonus to these, leave archer corpse after death (non-undead ones):
Units:
Human archer
Human elite archer
Human longbowman
Human poison archer
Imperial crossbowman
Goblin archer
Elite goblin archer
Master goblin archer
Uruk archer
Uruk archer 1
Uruk archer 2
Uruk archer 3
Elf archer
Quick archer
Fire archer (elf one)
Skeleton archer
Armored skeleton archer
Fire skull thrower
Armored fire skull thrower
Dwarven crossbowman
Kobold slinger
Armored kobold slinger
Kobold archer
Armored kobold archer
Kobold fire archer
Highborn kobold archer
Lizard archer
Armored lizard archer

Campain only:
Faramir (with bow)
Royal huntress
Legolas
Elf hunt ranger


3.1. Mounted archers, skirmisher type and pikemen type units have bonus to these, leave archer corpse after death (non-undead ones)
Human Horse archer
Human Elephant archer
Dryad

Campain only:
Rohan archer


4. Pikemen: they usually have low hp so no special category has bonus to this one, leave pike corpse after death (non-undead ones).
Unit list:
Human pikeman
Human halberdier
Imperial guard (changed)
Elf warrior
Elf sentinel (changed)
Skeleton pikeman
Armored skeleron pikeman
Phantom pikeman (changed)
Goblin spearman
Elite goblin spearman
Master goblin spearman
Uruk pikeman (changed)
Uruk pike 1 (changed)
Uruk pike 2 (changed)
Uruk pike 3 (changed)
Dwarven billman
Kobold spearman
Armored kobold spearman
Highborn kobold spearman
Kobold warden
Heavy kobold warden
Snakeman Spearman


5. Cavalry, vurable to pikemen and other anti cavalry units, leave cavalry corpse after death (non-undead ones).
Unit list:
Human light cavalry
Human knight
Human heavy knight
Missionary
War elephant
Elephant archer
Horse archer
Imperial knight
Drake knight
Dryad
Centaur (in both forms)
Unicorn rider
Undead knight
Armored skeleton knight
Golden skeleton knight
Death knight
Spectral rider (on horse)
Wolf rider
heavy wolf rider
Wolf rider master
Raptor rider
Elite raptor rider
Harnessed raptor rider
Bear rider
Boar rider
Heavy boar rider
Master boar rider
Kobold calvary
Kobold heavy calvary
Kobold lord
Kobold lady (mounted)
Komodo rider
Heavy komodo rider

Campain only:
Nazgul rider
Hero knight
Rohan spearman
Rohan swordsman
Black knight
Theoden, king of rohan
Eomer, prince of rohan
King


6. Heavy infantry (NEW!!!), vurable only to cavalry and special heavy ranged units, leave normal corpse after death (non-undead ones).
Unit list:
Imperial shielder (changed)
Vampire (normal form) (changed)
Phantom axeman (changed)
Phantom pikeman (changed)
Uruk hai (changed)
Uruk hai 1 (changed)
Uruk hai 2 (changed)
Uruk hai 3 (changed)
Orc leader (changed)
Orc warlord (changed)
Orc king (changed)
Olog hai (changed)
Olog hai 1 (changed)
Olog hai 2 (changed)
Olog hai 3 (changed)
Mithril guard (changed)
Dwarven defender (changed)
Kobold waden (changed)
Heavy kobold waden (changed)
Highborn kobold lady (unmounted) (changed)

Campain only:
Nazgul
Aragorn
Boromir
Paladin
Gimli


6.1. Subgoup: Heavy Pikemen, vurable to archers, leave pike corpse after death (non-undead ones).
Unit list:
Imperial guard (changed)
Elven sentinel (changed)
Uruk pike (changed)
Uruk pike 1 (changed)
Uruk pike 2 (changed)
Uruk pike 3 (changed)


7. Flying units, archers and some other units deal full damage to them, few units have bonus to them.
Unit list:
Scout bird
Ornithopter
Drake knight
Dragon (elven)
Fairy
Eagle
Vampire-bat (bat form)
Skeleton dragon
Gargoyle
Green dragon (orc)
Zeppelin carrier
War Zeppelin (Known for now as Dwafnes Zeppelin)
Devourer
Green dragon (scaledfolk)
Red dragon
Gold dragon
Dark dragon

Campain only:
Fury
Great dragon


8. Dragon units (NEW!!!), skirmishers have bonus against them, leave dragon corpse after death (non-undead ones).
Unit list:
Blue dragon
Drake knight (leaves mounter corpse)
Skeleton dragon
Green dragon (orc)
Dragon (elven)
Devourer
Green dragon (scaledfolk)
Red dragon
Gold dragon
White dragon
Dark dragon
Gray dragon (Dragon lord?)

Campain only:
Great dragon


9. Skirmishers, vurable to cavalry.
Unit list:
Human skirmisher
Human skirmisher master
Troll headhunter
Elite troll headhunter
Master troll headhunter


10. Siege units, vurable to cavalry (New!), fire.
Unit list:
Catapult
Trebushet
Battering ram
Fodder cannon
Ent demolisher
Dwarven mortar
Mantlet (scaledfolk)


11. Giant units, vurable to cavalry, giant killer units (special ones, usually infantry).
Unit list:
Ettin
Orc leader
Orc warlord
Orc King
Cave troll
Troll headhunter
Elite troll headhunter
Master troll headhunter
Olog Hai
Olog hai 1
Olog hai 2
Olog hai 3
Hamletback
Elite hamletback
Master hamletback
Skeletal monster
Bone golem
Flesh golem
Ent
Ent warrior
Sea serpent
Gray dragon
Turtleman
Hydra


12. Amphibious units (NEW!!!, special category), several units will have bonus against these.
Unit list:
Merlock
Elite merlock
Master merlock
Ettin
Orc leader
Orc warlord
Orc King
Cave troll
Olog Hai
Olog hai 1
Olog hai 2
Olog hai 3
Hamletback
Elite hamletback
Master hamletback
Skeletal monster
Bone golem
Flesh golem
Skeleton fighter
Armored skeleton fighter
Ghoul (changed)
Zombie (changed)
Cemetery reaper (changed)
Cemetery biting reaper (changed)
Specrtal rider (without horse)
Skeleton archer
Armored skeleton archer
Fire skull thrower
Armored fire skull thrower
Skeleton pikeman
Armored skeleron pikeman
Undead knight
Armored skeleton knight
Golden skeleton knight
Spectral rider (on horse)
Lizard Blademan (changed)
Armored lizard blademan (changed)
Komodo dragon (changed)
Snakeman duel swordman (changed)
Lizard archer
Armored lizard archer
Snakeman Spearman
Komodo rider
Heavy komodo rider
Gray dragon
Turtleman
Hydra


13. Naval units, vurable to special units.
Unit list:
Human warship
Human destroyer
Human catapult ship
Human transport ship
Human great transport
Undead transportship
Ghost vessel
Treasure ship
Orc transportship
Elf transportship
Merman
Sea serpent
All kind of bridges
Dwarven steamship
Raft
Small ship (scaledfolk)
Dock
Sacred spring
Orc dock


13.1. Sub category: Ships, leave after death "Shipwreck".
Unit list:
Human warship
Human destroyer
Human catapult ship
Human transport ship
Human great transport
Undead transportship
Orc transportship
Elf transportship
Dwarven steamship
Raft
Small ship (scaledfolk)


14. Land transport units (special), vurable to fire (most of time), can't transport other transport units (any from this list).
Unit list:
Human wagon
Orc wagon
Elf wagon
Ent warrior
Ent demolisher
Undead wagon
Zeppelin carrier
Scaledfolk wagon
Mantlet
Turtleman


14.1. Sub category: Water transport units (special), can't transport other water transport units, can transport land transport units.
Unit list:
Human transport ship
Human great transport
Undead transportship
Orc transportship
Elf transportship
Dwarven steamship
Raft
Small ship (scaledfolk)
Turtleman


15. Mechanical units, they can't be healed, can be mended.
Unit list:
Catapult
Trebushet
Human warship
Human destroyer
Human catapult ship
Human transport ship
Human great transport
Human wagon
Battering ram
Undead transportship
Ghost vessel
Treasure ship
Undead wagon
Orc transportship
Orc wagon
Elf transportship
Elf wagon
Dwarven steamship
Zeppelin carrier
War zeppelin (known for now as Dwafnes Zeppelin)
Raft
Small ship (scaledfolk)
Mantlet (scaledfolk)
Scaledfolk wagon


16. Elite units (NEW!!!, special), vurable to special elite hunters.
Unit list:
Imperial shielder
Imperial swordman
Imperial guard
Imperial crossbowman
Imperial knight
Uruk axeman
Uruk axe 1
Uruk axe 2
Uruk axe 3
Uruk hai
Uruk hai 1
Uruk hai 2
Uruk hai 3
Olog hai
Olog hai 1
Olog hai 2
Olog hai 3
Uruk pikeman
Uruk pike 1
Uruk pike 2
Uruk pike 3
Uruk archer
Uruk archer 1
Uruk archer 2
Uruk archer 3
Phantom crusher
Phantom axeman
Phantom pikeman
Phantom swordsman
Elf sentinel
Mithril guard
Highborn kobold drummer
Kobold Conjuror
Highborn kobold maceman
Highborn kobold spearman
Highborn kobold swordman
Highborn kobold archer
Highborn kobold lady (mounted)
Highborn kobold lady (without horse)


17. Special units (NEW!!!), have no weaknesses.
Unit list:
Pea shooter
Human assasin
Human scout dog
Human money courier
Grave digger
Shade
Kobold merchant
Kobold drummer
All animals
All neutral human/scaledfolk units (villagers)


18. Caster units (NEW!!!, special), for special purposes (for example for special caster who targets only other casters), they can't use ANY of their abilities in transports.
Unit list:
Healer
Missionary
Templar
Warmage
Blue dragon
Drake knight
Elf wizard
Elf shaman
Mummy
Lich
Necromancer
Banshee
Spectral knight (both forms)
Death knight
Orc shaman
Troll shaman
Fodder cannon
Goblin spiker
Elite goblin spiker
Master goblin spiker
Goblin spearman
Elite goblin spearman
Master goblin spearman
Goblin archer
Elite goblin archer
Master goblin archer
Dwarf priest
Dwarf cleric
Dwarf monk
Dwarf alchemist
Kobold shaman
Kobold priestess
Kobold conjuror
Kobold lady
Devourer
Green dragon (scaledfolk)
Red dragon
Gold dragon
White dragon
Dark dragon
Gray dragon (Dragon lord?)


Special Unit types:
19. Undead units, vurable to exorcism, rest, few other anti-undead abilities and special anti-undead units, leave no corpse after death, usually vurable to fire.
Unit list:
Skeleton worker
Skeleton fighter
Armored skeleton fighter
Ghoul
Zombie
Cemetery reaper
Cemetery biting reaper
Skeleton archer
Armored skeleton archer
Fire skull thrower
Armored fire skull thrower
Skeleton pikeman
Armored skeleron pikeman
Undead knight
Armored skeleton knight
Golden skeleton knight
Vampire (both forms)
Skeleton dragon
Gargoyle
Grave digger
Mummy
Lich
Necromancer
Banshee
Flesh golem
Bone golem


20. Demon units, vurable to few holy spells and anti-demon units, leave no corpse after death.
Unit list:
Spectral rider (both forms)
Death knight
Phantom crusher
Phantom axeman
Phantom pikeman
Phantom swordsman


21. Trolls, vurable to fire and special units.
Unit list:
Troll shaman
Troll headhunter
Elite troll headhunter
Master troll headhunter
Olog hai
Olog hai 1
Olog hai 2
Olog hai 3
Cave troll


22. Summoned, vurable to disenchant (deals damage to them), can be targeted by "vanishing+" ability types and affected by delay vanishing aura.
Unit list:
Ent
Wolf (summoned, elven)
Flesh golem
Bone golem


23. Forum Heroes, can't be targeted by any debuff aura effect or any debuff spell (they can still reseive slowing, poison and maybe fire (several heroes) from passive abilities which work on hit and from AOE damaging and debuffing spells).
Unit list:
Under construction...


24. Elementals, vurable to disenchant (deals damage to them), immune to ANY status effects exept slow, can't be healed in buildings, can be healed only by unit abilities.
Unit list:
Under construction...


25. Unique units, can be trained only one per player.
Kobold conjurer
Kobold Lady (Mounted)
Kobold Lady (unmounted)
And another suggestion: to write in bonuses instead of specific units their categories in general, as well as each unit's category in his info box (extended one)
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 11 times in total.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:41 am

Building Types:
1. Regular buildings (general type)
1.1. Neutral general buildings
2. Walls/Bridges
3. Towers
4. Castles
5. Special (towns)
6. Neutral decoration


Reasons:
1. it is hard to navigate through bonus lists. with this it will be MUCH easier and because much easier to plan attacks and seach disbalances of units.
2. will help to solve few human and elven problems of underpowered on certail level units (against orcs for both, undeads for elves, flying units for humans)
3. it will be much easier to plan new units with this. to which they have bonuses, weaknesses, which units they can target via spells, etc, etc...

And last thing - for units which can't be included in any category here we need to make new one (alas i hope that there won't be any)
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Tankhead
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by Tankhead » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:21 pm

Yes and while that at it, they can also update AI to more things like
Humans:
Use blacksmith and they're upgrades
Use the blue dragon in mages hut
Use catapults more often
Use imperial troops a little more often
Undead:
use phantom garrison, phantom troops and upgrades
Upgrade armored undead knight to golden undead knight
Spawn in graveyards and zombies less ( seems like AI really only cares about those 2 things)
Spawn in crypt a litte more often along with mummies and lich ( only a little )
Have undead spawn in archers more often since they lack range
Use the banshees
Raise the dead on the battlefield
Use ghost vessel more often
Use fireball from dark knight
Scalefolk:
Use dragon temple, dragon troops and upgrades
use the flame tower and poison tower similar to how humans use the fortress and guard tower
Use the small ship
Orcs/trolls:
Use master orcs upgrade
Use the warlord to king upgrade
Use master merlock upgrade
Use master trolls upgrade
Use master goblin upgrade
Spawn in turk tent and monster cave a little more often
Use orc dock more often
Dwarves:
Use the dwarven mortar
Use the drafnes zeppelin
Elves:
Use parapet
Use scared spring
Use elven craftsmen more often
Some of these i already address but im giving the full load here.
I know this requires time but i feel some of these should have been already implemented. For example the undead, all they ever do is spawn graveyards and zombies causing hardly any damage to any race. Humans and orcs/trolls i feel are getting strip of they're full potential. Scalefolk and dwarves are relatively new so i understand why some stuff aren't in yet but i put it down just in case.
Elves are honestly good in my opinion but im a attention to detail type person, so i noticed they don't use some units. In AOF and AOS i play solo and paid for all the upgrades so it would be nice to see AI to utilize everything.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:25 pm

this thing is different. Please don't suggest such things here because it comes to completely different sphere of ai progamming and not of just modifying units.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by General Brave » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:24 pm

We do need a aquatic section instead of using the ship section.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:58 pm

There is a naval section - for all water only units. №13, ships are sub of this with №13.1
ships are sub of it for ship wreckages and for counting for units like fire archer (who operates with fire) to burn these unit only and don't affect units like Sea serpent, turtleman and other living ones.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:15 pm

sigh

Makazuwr32. 1 unit. That can not drastically change gameplay or sometihing.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:14 am

For a good amount of units it is already that way. I agree we might need to put some order into some situations but there are some categories I can't really get.

For example elite and elite hunters (I can't see the need for that since you cna simply use their counter from the right category and specific hunters can have specific units added to their bonus list). Also the heavy infantry seems really like the same as infantry. Heavy units already have a "bonus" against archers that is coming from their high p.armor.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:42 am

Not exactly - some units will have bonus against heavy infantries BECAUSE of their armor (acid for example eats away armor) but at the same time they must not have same thing to normal infantry.

Elite units and Elite hunters: there is formed already such categories: Imperials, Uruks, Phantoms, Highborn. For example How do you think Elves can counter Uruks? Also another reason why i am adding these 2 categories is because i want to make them more vurable and thus to spur the use of non-elite units - like orc basic ones and giants, undead skeletons, human basic units, elven basic melee units. Also only elites usually will have bonus against other elites specifically.

Also first thing why am i suggesting some groups this is because
makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 am
And another suggestion: to write in bonuses instead of specific units their categories in general, as well as each unit's category in his info box (extended one)
Otherwise many units will not be in any categories or have too many weaknesses. Like for example Sea serpent of elves - Why in first place it is burnable and leaves shipwreck after death? Or Imperial shielder - why he MUST be vurable to archers? even if he has high p.armor why?

This way we can just write current category instead of writing each unit one by one in code and for players and just when we will add new unit we will just add to him some group tags and it is automatically is in his group.

And remember that now bonuses will apply to whole list, no exeptions.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by godOfKings » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:59 pm

Bonus system always used categories, only units with no json use the inefficient method of putting each unit in the bonus list, however stats description doesn't show bonus against category, only units that r within the given categories
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:54 pm

I want to change stats description to change that it will show bonuses against categories.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by General Brave » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:15 pm

Special units?
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:19 pm

yes. money courier, spy, assassin and such units who are weak by themself and don't need any category.
As for special unit types categories - they are for spells, special anti units (like the one Stormsaint made, don't remember name, undead/demon hunter)
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by General Brave » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:22 pm

I see.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:37 pm

Hmm, I remember from a post i had made Eons ago about a "Tier" thing in order to start the balance b4 things get messed, it was well, misunderstood at time but looks similar to this, now i think it goes foward. :lol:
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by General Brave » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:46 pm

We must learn from our mistakes.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:53 am

Yep, but that was a step too big to be taken at first, that's why it might had scared most of the ppl... This suggestion will simplify the things for now... Mine actually would need something similar to change the units catalog aswell. Maybe this would end being even the first step to put that on pratice... In any case. Both will have massive time spent to come reality anyway... So i really would like to see this done soon!
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by Savra » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:51 pm

Would it be possible to take non siege units bonuses to walls away so there will be somewhat more of a use to the walls? Because right now infantry can just walls down without the need of wall breakers pretty easily and this could probably help the elves walls last a bit longer.

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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:00 pm

as for elven walls i want to add them 100% damage counter and increase damage.
Tomorrow i will update the lists for humans and undeads and also post list for orcs.
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Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:39 pm

I was also thinking to change the bonus of archers.

To make it more realistic i'd create 2 category for units:

shielded and unshielded

I think that archer should have a bonus against any unshielded unit while they should have no bonus against shielded units

That is cause shields in battles are the main protection against arrows and arrows can more easily hit vital parts on unprotected units

This way archers will have more bonus against weapons who wields 2 handed weapons (no matter if they are on foot or on horseback)

what do you think?
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:43 pm

Pikes will become shooting targets.
As well as other archers. and with current way of how dodge is working dodge ranged oon elven archers will become useless because all ranged units will gain bonus to them and 100% to hit.
Also will they have bonus against mechanical units? against dragons?
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Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:51 pm

Also big units with no shields. I think it makes more sense than just infantry cause many times you need more damage against big units more than against infantry.

Of course, polearm bearer will suffer from this tough.

Also I think that bonus against flying units would be a great addition
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:55 pm

maybe later. i need to look through my tables.
what bonus do you want against non-shielded targets?
against giants with no shields?
against cavalry with no shields?
against flying units?

Archers must NOT have bonus against other archers.
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Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:09 pm

Same bonus for every unshielded should work I guess. Otherwise we will need extra categories

About flying units we might also go for 100% or 200%

I'll make some test later.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:16 pm

dodge ranged for archers then will become useless completely.
Also this bonus completely removes need in skirmishers because it will be EVEN easier to deal with enemy archers using your own ones.

100% or even more 200% is too much against flying units.
why not 2000%? this will have same effect - complete massacre of ANY flying units by archers. ESPECIALLY by elven ones.

i want to lower bonuses for units against other units, not increase them (if not count polearm unit and skirmishers i think max bonuses against units must be 50%, not more unless it is designed against special category and completely useless against everything else, skirmishers must have (all variants!) 100% bonus against archers and dragons.)
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Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:26 pm

As I told you before it should have been tested

About lowering bonuses I don't think it is up to you to decide what must be changed

To be honest I think that this work you have made is pretty debatable since there are units with lower stats that might require a higher bonus and units with higher stats that might need a lower bonus.

Having the same bonuses in certain cases might not be the best way to handle balance.

Also I told you yesterday that is probably better to change dodge values but make it always working
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:38 pm

i will prefer current system of dodges.

as for bonuses - most units have already 50% bonuses and let's stick to this number. ofc some special units can have different numbers but for most units 50% is fine.
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Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by godOfKings » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:18 pm

Bonuses should not b standard, it should b decided upon how much base damage the unit has, and how much more damage the unit should give against units it has bonus, and that should b determined by how many atks u want to kill a particular unit, depending on that unit's cost too
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by General Brave » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:23 pm

This how the bonus thing works I think, if the unit have bonus against Unit B which is 100%. He would get hit a hundred percent of unit A damage. If Unit A have 200% bonus against Unit B, it would be two times the damage.
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Re: Suggestion: Full update of unit type list. WARNING! EXTREME WALL OF TEXT

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:31 pm

not exactly.
This is addition to their normal damage. for example unit has 10 damage and 100%, 200% and 350% against units a, b, c.
unit a will get 10 base + 10 bonus or 20 total pure damage which will be lowered by armor.
unit b will get 10 base +20 bonus or 30 total damage.
unit c - 45 damage.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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