some rebalancing for the orc dragon - ARCHIVED

Midonik
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Midonik » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:59 am

Than more nerfed than better.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 pm

I'd say 5 research cost, 5 cooldown. Researched at shaman's hut. This gives a reason to actually make a shamans hut, since otherwise we can just use tcs to make troll shamans, and prevents spamming workers to build a base and immediately turn them into dragons as a rush. Cooldown limits the spam factor, forcing the speed of dragon production to be limited by the number of shamans, rather than one per turn per shaman.
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Midonik
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Midonik » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:03 pm

Sounds good. +1
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General Brave
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by General Brave » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:13 pm

It seems like, I need to destroy my opponent before this Geneva is done.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:37 pm

General, this is your fault. Nobody would know how powerful such a rush was, except you used it on half the forum members.
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Midonik » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:54 pm

Exacly,I werent paying attention here until I saw what a heck you're doing with those dragons.
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Alexander82
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:04 pm

Sunrise Samurai wrote:General, this is your fault. Nobody would know how powerful such a rush was, except you used it on half the forum members.
totally agree :D
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Alexander82
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:08 pm

My suggestion:

tech cost: 8 at the shaman's hut
spell cooldown: 6
sacrifice reduce to 1
no vanishing
no uncontrollable

How that should work:

You click the spell
You choose a unit in range (we might decide to leave it range 1 or increase it a bit more)
the unit is removed
The dragon is summoned in the tile of the chosen unit
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makazuwr32
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:40 pm

Alexander82 wrote:My suggestion:

tech cost: 8 at the shaman's hut
spell cooldown: 6
sacrifice reduce to 1
no vanishing
no uncontrollable

How that should work:

You click the spell
You choose a unit in range (we might decide to leave it range 1 or increase it a bit more)
the unit is removed
The dragon is summoned in the tile of the chosen unit
Reduce tech cost to 5 i think
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Ayush Tiwari
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:41 pm

Where will dragon come from?Shaman or his hut?
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makazuwr32
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:51 pm

The dragon will still gome as summon from shaman but you'll need research first at shaman hut, a sacrifice (on which place would be summoned that dragon - no free corpses for undeads) and a shaman itself. Also you can't summon another dragon on next turn - the spell will be on cooldown for 6 turns. (Aka the fireball of human mages)
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:47 pm

Alexander82 wrote: sacrifice reduce to 1
So we effectively reduce the cost of dragons to 2? That's actually a little worse than it already is, despite cooldown and tech cost. Maybe make it a 1x per shaman and that would be alright.

It does need uncontrollable removed though. That was a good idea in theory, but not in practice.
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Green Dragon Rebalance

Post by DoomCarrot » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:51 pm

After playing in a 2v2 game with sunrise, midonik, and general brave, where general used green dragons to completely overwhelm both midonik and sunrise, I think all of us (besides general maybe :lol: ) have decided that green dragons need some nerfing.

There is basically absolutely nothing that any race can do against green dragon spamming, especially if it is done early game. Undeads have a SLIGHT chance to defeat it (using sacraficed killer with mummies), but even then it is a very iffy strategy. as dragons can easily be kept out of their range.

The 80 HP is what does it. An orc player can easily have 2-3 dragons by turn 6-8, which accumulates to 120-200 HP of monster to bring down. Most players have a couple scout units at most by this point in game, and it is impossible to stop such a dragon rush.

I think this rebalnce request would recieve the endorsement of at least 2-3 other players as of now.
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Midonik
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Re: Green Dragon Rebalance

Post by Midonik » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:00 pm

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General Brave
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Re: Green Dragon Rebalance

Post by General Brave » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:07 pm

As the Undead, I don't use the mummy. Instead I just use the one that convert unit, and use that against the dragons.
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Midonik
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Re: Green Dragon Rebalance

Post by Midonik » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:10 pm

Mummy curse + lich convert is best,but dragon rush is problematic anyway,its hard to stop those dragons from killing your expensive casters.
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General Brave
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Re: Green Dragon Rebalance

Post by General Brave » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:17 pm

Don't you put them In buildings?
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Midonik
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Re: Green Dragon Rebalance

Post by Midonik » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:28 pm

What are golem towers against power of orcs destroying power?
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DoomCarrot
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by DoomCarrot » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:37 pm

I am in support of this as well, despite orcs being my favorite race :lol:
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Green Dragon Rebalance

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:47 pm

If a dragon hits anywhere near your base, you're screwed. Trample is more than capable of killing factories, so even if you kill/convert one, it probably wrecked your base already, giving the orc player a huge advantage.

In our game, I had an archer swarm, partial takeover of general's base, and a tc advantage when the dragons came. It took about 3 turns before they were in MY base, taking out buildings via trample damage, since I had them protected by adjacent wolves. 80 hp, plus 100% heal also means I had to really lay in on one that general misplaced to kill it before it could be healed. Made no difference, since there's 4 more. Not even killing the closest troll shaman was enough to help.

When elf archers can't kill a dragon, undead are screwed.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:53 pm

@Doom: notice I'm refusing to use them in our game, and holding my own just fine. Believe me, orcs have many good strategies. If we removed dragons entirely, they'd be just fine. I'm not worried about messing orcs up with this.
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General Brave
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by General Brave » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:05 pm

Well, I could stop for a while. I would let Richard handle this and fight the battles instead.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:16 pm

Lol honestly a bit late for any game already in progress.
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General Brave
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by General Brave » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:22 pm

It's time for the steam roll!
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Alexander82
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:54 pm

Sunrise Samurai wrote:
Alexander82 wrote: sacrifice reduce to 1
So we effectively reduce the cost of dragons to 2? That's actually a little worse than it already is, despite cooldown and tech cost. Maybe make it a 1x per shaman and that would be alright.

It does need uncontrollable removed though. That was a good idea in theory, but not in practice.
The real problem is that you can spam dragons. If you have a high cooldown (or a limitation like 1 for every shaman that might be even better) the unit can even have a low cost.

It is true that this way we would exchange a dragon for a 2 turns unit but if you can do it only once in 6 turn it is manageable for the opponent (troll shaman is not exactly cheap either).
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DoomCarrot
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by DoomCarrot » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:48 am

I do think cooldown is needed, but stats also need to be nerfed a bit. Don’t get me wrong, a dragon should be strong, just not unstoppable even with your entire army against it strong lol.
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Midonik
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Midonik » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:52 am

I would remove trample,it makes a lot of troubles.
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Ayush Tiwari
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:03 pm

Maybe,Cost of research is 6,cooldown for 4 turns.And tranple 1 tiles and not 2
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General Brave
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by General Brave » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:57 pm

They have a trample of 2? And that is the problem.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: some rebalancing for the orc dragon

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:59 pm

Final stats suggestion:
Reduce hp to 60 (still huge, but not quite as unkillable with regeneration and flying factored in)
Trample reduced to 1
Research cost 5
Sacrifice cost 1
One dragon per shaman.

For 7 total cost, you get a VERY useful healer and a powerful flying unit with trample, high damage, and still very high hp. Research simply delays the ability to use it for 5 turns, preventing a rush from happening so easily. Probably a lot more balanced, though 7 cost still seems quite a bargain.
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