total war

[Jasondunkel]

Since the Allies have techniques like "Great Patriotic War" and "War Machine".

Maybe the Germans could get something like that too.

After Göbbels' speech "do you want total war" in the Sports Palace on February 18, 1943, where he prepared the Germans for difficult times.

Since Germany was on the defensive from this time at the latest, all infantry, artillery, anti-tank guns could get +2 deff and all tanks and vehicles +1 deff

Similar to the allied techniques, this can be researched from industry level II and then costs 5 rounds

[TntAttack]

Let there be a distinction between technologies and political/economical initiatives.

I'll classify Great Patriotic War, War Machine, Total War as perks that should not be researched like normal technology but earned or gained somehow.

Perhaps we could just make a new section in match creation, besides player nationality selection, player "perk" selection.

[Jasondunkel]

That would mean some kind of reward system
1. I don't know if that's possible
2. I don't know if that's intentional either

[Puppeteer12]

Let there be a distinction between technologies and political/economical initiatives.

I'll classify Great Patriotic War, War Machine, Total War as perks that should not be researched like normal technology but earned or gained somehow.

Perhaps we could just make a new section in match creation, besides player nationality selection, player "perk" selection.

In my opinion, the problem with your idea is that it's changing something for the sake of change.

There's literally no problem with Initiatives being tech right now, plus I don't think your idea is possible on the current engine.

[TntAttack]

Let there be a distinction between technologies and political/economical initiatives.

I'll classify Great Patriotic War, War Machine, Total War as perks that should not be researched like normal technology but earned or gained somehow.

Perhaps we could just make a new section in match creation, besides player nationality selection, player "perk" selection.

In my opinion, the problem with your idea is that it's changing something for the sake of change.

There's literally no problem with Initiatives being tech right now, plus I don't think your idea is possible on the current engine.

Will each nation have a their own initiative technology, and if so how many per nation?

If everyone is going to get 1 initiative per nation, then you are forcing the player to research a nation specific technology else fight without a super boost. If you plan to have multiple initiatives per nation (assuming there is enough initiatives for all nation), the player now has the ability to boost the entire match via a 5 turn technology.

I have my calancing concerns in cost, in its effect on units in relation to other units, in relation to other nations' super technology (or lack of). But for now I guess its okay as long as other nations have their own in the future.

(In my humble opinion, if every nation had 1 initiative, and players were compelled to research it because of its benefits, that's crappy game design in restricting player's agency. Ingame narractive be like "And then the germans were fighting a defensive war" but that player playing Germany is actually winning against his opponent.)

[Puppeteer12]

You're acting like the intuitives are massive game winning boost, the reality is that it's just small stat boost that nations without it can still win against it (I'm pretty sure it's also affected by steal technology)

And again, pretty sure your idea is impossible under the current engine.

"In my humble opinion, if every nation had 1 initiative, and players were compelled to research it because of its benefits, that's crappy game design in restricting player's agency"
I'm sorry but that is just a dumb game design take. All other ao variants have this kind of tech and literally zero players have a problem with it. By your logic then era tech are bad game design.

I recommend to post this idea on this discord if you want more people to see it.

[TntAttack]

You're acting like the intuitives are massive game winning boost, the reality is that it's just small stat boost that nations without it can still win against it (I'm pretty sure it's also affected by steal technology)

And again, pretty sure your idea is impossible under the current engine.

"In my humble opinion, if every nation had 1 initiative, and players were compelled to research it because of its benefits, that's crappy game design in restricting player's agency"
I'm sorry but that is just a dumb game design take. All other ao variants have this kind of tech and literally zero players have a problem with it. By your logic then era tech are bad game design.

I recommend to post this idea on this discord if you want more people to see it.

Okay you have convinced me otherwise. My complaint is the lack of connection it has with other mechanics. A one off research, and that's it.

Era tech gives you newer units and technology, and follows a linear timeline in game narrative and mirrors history.

P.s I think Allied techs are stealable by other allied nations only.

[Jasondunkel]

Okay, now we're still not sure whether this idea should be implemented where we have something for the Russians and Americans. In a sense, we have already built this in for the Japanese without any research - it's the kamikaze attacks from the planes.

[TntAttack]

Okay, now we're still not sure whether this idea should be implemented where we have something for the Russians and Americans. In a sense, we have already built this in for the Japanese without any research - it's the kamikaze attacks from the planes.

I worry about the balance between nations. Germany is already strong, and this is very much. How about removing the deff effect from infantry and vehicles? I would be okay
with total war ingame if deff effect didnt apply to infatry and vehicles.


Other thoughts;
I would prefer understanding more about the design theory of these technologies a bit more.

In the case of the Japanese "Kamikaze" ability, it's more active based ability unlike the passive effect ability in War Machine and Great War.

I would highly recommend revising War Machine and Great War from passive effect ability to active based ability.

[Jasondunkel]

Okay, now we're still not sure whether this idea should be implemented where we have something for the Russians and Americans. In a sense, we have already built this in for the Japanese without any research - it's the kamikaze attacks from the planes.

I worry about the balance between nations. Germany is already strong, and this is very much. How about removing the deff effect from infantry and vehicles? I would be okay
with total war ingame if deff effect didnt apply to infatry and vehicles.


Other thoughts;
I would prefer understanding more about the design theory of these technologies a bit more.

In the case of the Japanese "Kamikaze" ability, it's more active based ability unlike the passive effect ability in War Machine and Great War.

I would highly recommend revising War Machine and Great War from passive effect ability to active based ability.

how do you imagine that. How do you want to get this active based ability??

[TntAttack]

Okay, now we're still not sure whether this idea should be implemented where we have something for the Russians and Americans. In a sense, we have already built this in for the Japanese without any research - it's the kamikaze attacks from the planes.

I worry about the balance between nations. Germany is already strong, and this is very much. How about removing the deff effect from infantry and vehicles? I would be okay
with total war ingame if deff effect didnt apply to infatry and vehicles.


Other thoughts;
I would prefer understanding more about the design theory of these technologies a bit more.

In the case of the Japanese "Kamikaze" ability, it's more active based ability unlike the passive effect ability in War Machine and Great War.

I would highly recommend revising War Machine and Great War from passive effect ability to active based ability.

how do you imagine that. How do you want to get this active based ability??

On second thought its more so "activation based ability" than "active ability".

Example:

In topic of Active abilities instead of passive effect in Nation Specific Technologies

Example, War Machine, The Great Patriotic War etc.

Is it possible for a tech such as "War Machine" when researched to
- Decrease all towns, facilities production by 1
- Reset so that the player forgets this tech and has to research it again.

Explaination: USA player researches War Machine. 5 turns later, when tech is researched all tc and facility production is speed up by one. Tech is forgotten and player have to research it again to "trigger" ability.

Mentioned this on discord. Dev saw it. Anyways if it's possible and that you support it we could similar for other nations.

Instead of production reduction it could be like your total war, passive effect or aura effecy for limited time.

[Jasondunkel]

I worry about the balance between nations. Germany is already strong, and this is very much. How about removing the deff effect from infantry and vehicles? I would be okay
with total war ingame if deff effect didnt apply to infatry and vehicles.


Other thoughts;
I would prefer understanding more about the design theory of these technologies a bit more.

In the case of the Japanese "Kamikaze" ability, it's more active based ability unlike the passive effect ability in War Machine and Great War.

I would highly recommend revising War Machine and Great War from passive effect ability to active based ability.

how do you imagine that. How do you want to get this active based ability??

On second thought its more so "activation based ability" than "active ability".

Example:

In topic of Active abilities instead of passive effect in Nation Specific Technologies

Example, War Machine, The Great Patriotic War etc.

Is it possible for a tech such as "War Machine" when researched to
- Decrease all towns, facilities production by 1
- Reset so that the player forgets this tech and has to research it again.

Explaination: USA player researches War Machine. 5 turns later, when tech is researched all tc and facility production is speed up by one. Tech is forgotten and player have to research it again to "trigger" ability.

Mentioned this on discord. Dev saw it. Anyways if it's possible and that you support it we could similar for other nations.

Instead of production reduction it could be like your total war, passive effect or aura effecy for limited time.

This is a different approach to the game. It is an approach to building play. Since we're talking about a fairly limited timeline here, I'm not a fan of forgetting something the way you suggest. For fantasy stories, I would subscribe to this suggestion

[TntAttack]

This is a different approach to the game. It is an approach to building play. Since we're talking about a fairly limited timeline here, I'm not a fan of forgetting something the way you suggest. For fantasy stories, I would subscribe to this suggestion

I prefer this kind of approach. I realise your suggested total war might not fit here because it occurs at a certain stage , whereas War Machine extends to the entire war. I hope that it would make matches less linear (e.g. big-> bigger, small-> smaller) and more like tug of war (Push -> counterattack, counterattack-> Push). (Search up tug of war if translator don't understand, it's the rope pulling game)

Moving back to current game mechanic
In conclusion, your total war idea is okay but I want to see more for other nations as well. Japan should get its own one, not just the kamikaze plane ability. Italy and France are up for suggestions. Britain could have Prime Minister Churchill e.g. "Darkest Hour" (British resistance during the German Blitz bombing) tech, British aa, air fighters, navy get +1 attack.

France could get "Extensive Defences", all buildings increase hp and damage? Or "Free France"? Italy could get "Desperation" (Half serious, half joke) +1 damage to air units, artillery, SPG? Infantry gain +10hp?

[Jasondunkel]

This is a different approach to the game. It is an approach to building play. Since we're talking about a fairly limited timeline here, I'm not a fan of forgetting something the way you suggest. For fantasy stories, I would subscribe to this suggestion

I prefer this kind of approach. I realise your suggested total war might not fit here because it occurs at a certain stage , whereas War Machine extends to the entire war. I hope that it would make matches less linear (e.g. big-> bigger, small-> smaller) and more like tug of war (Push -> counterattack, counterattack-> Push). (Search up tug of war if translator don't understand, it's the rope pulling game)

Moving back to current game mechanic
In conclusion, your total war idea is okay but I want to see more for other nations as well. Japan should get its own one, not just the kamikaze plane ability. Italy and France are up for suggestions. Britain could have Prime Minister Churchill e.g. "Darkest Hour" (British resistance during the German Blitz bombing) tech, British aa, air fighters, navy get +1 attack.

France could get "Extensive Defences", all buildings increase hp and damage? Or "Free France"? Italy could get "Desperation" (Half serious, half joke) +1 damage to air units, artillery, SPG? Infantry gain +10hp?

Now the "total war" is only supposed to close the gap for the Germans there, and something more should come for the missing nations.

You've already made some excellent suggestions, I particularly like the title "Desperation" and it's especially fitting for Italy. Their army was a little better than suitable for WW1 but not even remotely suitable for WW2. This “desperation” should be researched when. I would actually only see it for Industry III.
I think the 10 HP for infantry is a bit much. But I really like the rest.

In which industry should the others get their stuff.

For Japan you could e.g. research a thing like "Seppuku"
There would be infantry, artillery anti-tank guns +3 attack HP -4
aircraft, tanks, vehicles and tank destroyers +2 attack -2 deff
Ships get +7 attack, -3 deff and -10 hp

I would place it in Industry III and research 5 rounds. But it could also take 6 or 7 rounds because it would be a very extensive change

[DreJaDe]

Just saying... We could start with easier ones.

Like "Better Infantry training"
Then adds plus 1 to rifleman damage.

"Improved Battlefield manuals"
Adds +2-5 hp to some infantry.

Better first aid
Adds +5 healer for medics

Smt like that