massive walls and building time - IMPLEMENTED

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Alexander82
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massive walls and building time - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:07 am

I've noticed that the tech "massive walls" is mostly a downside for you than an useful help.
Unless you aren't building anymore and just want your walls to be stronger this skill increase the building time of your structure (wich i assume is based on the amount of hit points of the building).
I don't think that a building that improves your building should give you such a downside (sometimes needing more than 4 turns to build a barracks means that you have to loose a turn more for every one you make).
The change in building time doesn't display in the building menu, but i've tested that researching massive walls you actually need 5 builders to build a factory.
I suggest trying to make the tech also increase the building stat of workers by 25% and see if that works.
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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:38 am

No i think that after this tech the structures should cost same as before. That would be better. Just my opinion
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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:12 am

Yes, but right now it's not that way :(
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Endru1241
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:01 pm

I think "bonusMendingWhenConstructing" should be increased for buildings after massive walls as in unit property sheet http://www.ageofstrategy.net/viewtopic. ... e28f844d5e

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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:47 pm

Endru1241 wrote:I think "bonusMendingWhenConstructing" should be increased for buildings after massive walls as in unit property sheet http://www.ageofstrategy.net/viewtopic. ... b69fc41809
You are correct.
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:53 pm

yes, i can change them, i also annoyed about increased build times.
you can tell me how the tech should increase the building bonusMendingWhenConstructing value.

the reason it is not set now is that i had no time to calculate the value that will fit to all buildings... (only one tech value can be set and all buildings will have that - so this can be problemous if a building have different hp than an other building)

so we should calculate and set these:
1. bonusMendingWhenConstructing default value for all buildings (without the tech)
2. bonusMendingWhenConstructing value the tech should "add" to the bonus
and the result should be:
- same build times (or little modifications) with ambidextria, and without ambidextria
- and still same times with massive walls and without...

not easy...

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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:44 pm

Why don't we just change the amount of hp for massive walls?
I mean, we can just, let's say, raise the building hp by 20% and at the same time add a 20% bonus to workers' stat.
If my memory doesn't fail me right now it's a straight value increase. With an increase in % we might solve the issue without having to recalculate everything
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:15 pm

add a 20% bonus to workers' stat
no no no, workers are not affected. only buildings are affected by that tech.
straight value increase
yes, without coding it is the only way, to try calibrating it the above way-

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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:46 pm

We can't use a single value because the increase is straight, so, for a 3 turns building the amount of bonus should be bonus hp/3
I think that ambidextria shouldn't be affected that way.
If the bonus hp is 40 to avoid walls to cost 1 turn more we should make the bonusmending 14

If you send me all the value i can try to make a bonus that varies vith other variables (such as the entire hp of the building)
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:36 am

Hmm i agree with alex. The health of all structures should increase by 25%.
I suggest making 2 such techs for all buildings below 100 hp and above it. That way we can efficiently double the hp of all structures for the 1st tech
And 25% of hp for more strong buildings like castle fortress etc
That way everything will be balanced
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:55 pm

I have all the necessary info, I think. So I can do it.
Thanks!
Josh

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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:22 pm

Then what are you waiting for!! Do it. Dev never disagrees to anything good to the came till its not very lengthy or someone is agreeing to do it like you are cool guy!!
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:28 pm

;) Sorry I mean the finding a single variable to add to the "bonusMendingWhenConstructing" value in the code.

The percentage variable way would not work without extra new coding.
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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:58 pm

Why don't we make somthing like:

Bonus hp: maxhp/4
Bonus mending: mending bonus/4

Can we set a variable bonus like this one?

Example: a building with 100 with 10 mending up would go to 125 and 13 mending
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:38 pm

I don't think so currently. I think now it must be a static figure to pass in as the variable ( i.e. a single integer with no literals for each)
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Josh

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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:46 pm

then we need actual values to make a combination that might work :(
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:44 pm

Alexander82 wrote:then we need actual values to make a combination that might work :(
have those :)
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Josh

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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:08 pm

Good. I don't think there is a value to make everything cost the same turns so, if i were working at the task, i would start makung the cheapest structures cost the same. This way the biggest will cost a bit less, but we should gain from a tech after all
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:08 pm

Okay what I found:

- the value "1.2" added to the existing structures' "bonusMendingWhenConstructing" value fits perfectly for all structures except the Fortress and the Mega Castle (all factories, Guard Tower, Wall, etc. keep the same build cost)
- the Fortress becomes cost 6 turns without the "Ambidextria" tech and 4 turns with
-the Mega Castle becomes cost 18 turns without "Ambidextria" and 13 turns with it

Fixes:

-Not have those two structures affected by "Massive Walls"
--but then the Guard Tower now has a hp of 80 (80% of Fortress) but only cost 4-3 turns (without/with Ambidextria) which is only 50% of the Fortress's cost

-Or have these two structures affected by it and just state that it reduces the cost of these buildings

What do you guys think?
Thanks!
Josh

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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:53 am

Thats why i suggested a different massive walls tech for them
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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:30 am

well... right now not everyone makes the advancement center, and that might become an incentive to use it.
Another possible solution is to make a modification scriptingwise, where fortress and castle receive an higher hp bonus (like a parallel effect for the same skill) making them slower to build.

anyway i don't find a problem for a fortress to be built in 4 turns with two skills.
The castle might be a bit too fast but i think it might be ok
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:44 pm

Here might be a solution, then:

-Have all the structures that currently benefit from the "Massive Walls" tech still be affected by it except the Great Castle
-Have the tech add "1.2" to the "bonusMendingWhenConstructing" value (along with the still 30 hp)
-Increase the tech cost by 1-2 turns
-State that it reduces the cost of the Fortress.

How does it sound?
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Josh

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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:52 pm

Too bad that we can't give the castle a bonus too :(
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:23 pm

I don't think the castle really needs it. 30 hp doesn't make that much of a difference because the castle already has 1000 hp. :)
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Josh

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Alexander82
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:24 pm

ok, let's try it ;)
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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:42 am

i just checked and massive walls and masonry also gave +40% on mending (bonusMending).
losing that on castle would hurt - or not?

(actually earlier there were no bonusMendingWhenconstructing setting, and i think that time, by setting bonusMending, i wanted to keep on same level (or decrease?) the cost of all buildings having the tech on them.)

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Re: massive walls and building time

Post by COOLguy » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:38 am

i just checked and massive walls and masonry also gave +40% on mending (bonusMending).
losing that on castle would hurt - or not?
I don't think so. It would just stay the same?
Daniel (the dev) wrote:(actually earlier there were no bonusMendingWhenconstructing setting, and i think that time, by setting bonusMending, i wanted to keep on same level (or decrease?) the cost of all buildings having the tech on them.)
But the cost of the buildings after the tech (like the factories) goes up, doesn't it?
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Josh

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Massive walls

Post by Hardeep » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:17 pm

Factory buildings with ambd. Still says they cost 3 turns, but it takes 4 turns to build when you get massive walls, when the turn indicator says 3 turns.
So the mend bonus needs to go up a percent or two most likely 5 though, since its the same for guard towers also, so i assume everything that gets affected takes an extra turn
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Re: Massive walls

Post by Hardeep » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:35 pm

Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
There never was much hope... just a fool's hope

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Re: Massive walls

Post by COOLguy » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:42 pm

Already a thread and proposed fix - I just haven't been able to find it. :)
Thanks!
Josh

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