Uruk Update

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4637
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Uruk Update

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:14 pm

But berserker costs 5 turns, not 7.
And it has more health AND speed than axeman. And with several buffs it can gain speed 5, 4 actions/turn and power range 2.

But in general i agree that probably it is too much and uruks need probably only captain.

Kharaxx
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:55 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Kharaxx » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:19 pm

The Units themselves are fine and in theory everyone of them has some up- and downside compared to the other.

In practice you will figure out if the additional movementspeed + second attack is worth the additional cost and , in case you want melee Infantry just use the best one and ignore the rest.

Also I think it's a good idea to give the subraces different identified, strength and weaknesses.

It would be pretty boring if it would look like this:
Savages provide 5 cost infantry with additional health
Minotaurs provide 5 cost infantry with additional Armor.
Uruks provide 5 cost infantry with 2 Actions.
Orcs provide 3 cost infantry.
Trolls provide 7 cost infantry.

It's way more interressting if, let's say Orcs have good stats, but no Unit with bonus against mounted Units and barely any utility.

Goblins are cheaper, have bad stats, but they have Units with bonus against mounted Units ore Flyers like bat.

Trolls have regeneration + anti Archer Unit, but are weak to fire and have no cheap Units.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4195
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Savra » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:59 am

Actually uruks cost is 3 turns for the base unit due to their upgrades requiring so much to get, they provide orcs with basically more tanky units and at max can be a pain to beat, but their probably the most balanced out of the entire orc race due to this.

Goblins originally were supposed to be anti cav and primary archers for orcs but now they are only anti cav really, + special units. The archers are obsolete to the current orc archer (which might I remind you that orcs were supposed to not have very many ranged weapons). Savage clans averages out at 7 turn cost units with the cheapest being hamletback. Minitours will be more attack and speed based with higher health, eventually when the goblinoid faction is done the goblin tent would be expanded to include more useful goblins like hobgoblins and bugbears.

But I do agree that the uruk captain would probably be the best bet out of the entire list being that he's the most useful and unique. It would be nice if each race built up more on what the orcs are weak against and that's magic. If you hadn't noticed their resistance sucks, and the units with the highest resistance cost a bit.If we had more casters for other races that could 1) take a hit, 2) deal larger amounts of damage with spells, 3) make use of a variety of spells that debuff units in an area, they could theoretically do better against orcs. Currently undead have the most offensive spells and if they got more tanky spell casters they might end up better against orcs. Uruk warlord only effects fellow uruks (not olog hai) and that should be the only resistance buffer for orcs they get. Basically that weakness must remain the same.

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4637
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Uruk Update

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:51 am

Only thing that alex is against for sure is aoe debuffs. We discussed that and he is categorically against them.

Kharaxx
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:55 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Kharaxx » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:14 am

Savra wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:59 am
Goblins originally were supposed to be anti cav and primary archers for orcs but now they are only anti cav really, + special units.

The archers are obsolete to the current orc archer
That's the reason why I dont like adding the new Uruks.
If they arent as good as Savages they are kinda useless, if they are good they make Savages useless.

I prefer to give them something Savages dont have, like give them a Ressistance upgrade + Captain or add anti mounted Units/Archers.

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4637
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Uruk Update

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:04 am

No anti-mounted ranged definately for now.

Resistance will be availible in form of aura from their captain and only onto uruks.

They alas have several differences against savage giants:
1. They are cheaper and in terms of cost/power (raw/buffed by aura) they outpower savage giants A LOT due to better ratio and higher numbers;
2. Higher range of units, units for nearly every situation on the front line.

Alas they also have several disadvantages:
1. They are trainable only in mega building or in their own unique building that is availible after unlocking faction. Unlike giants who can be trained after unlocking in regular monster caves.
2. They require rather costly upgrade for their leveling + orc upgrade, which is more than for leveling savage giants (giants + savages upgrades). Their upgrade also is researchable in their unique building unlike with savage upgrade (this exact moment i want to change alas).
3. They do not have any additional abilities to move through rough terrain (mountains/water) on most of units.

In result: in long term fights uruks are better because you can produce more of them and they have better stats/cost ratio than savage giants if you can get to enemy without crossing water/making detour around mountains. They also have awesome ranged and pike units.
On the other hand savages have easier (for no, i want for them their own unique building as well) access, better stats early game (and they are superior on tier 1 when compared to uruks) and ability to cross rough terrain.

So choice whom to use is depending on terrain and match itself - for rushing better savages, for long fights better uruks (they also can be transported via wagons and as result move faster than giants).

User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 6897
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:12 pm

I wanted to expand uruks already and I had similar ideas (I was thinking to make a berserker that was a dual swordsman, a leader unit, a siege one that could land mines on buildings like the one in the movies and maybe a mounted olog on a rhino).

I simply don't want them now

The leader I have in mind have a powerful aura (with some bonus to uruk only and others that affect other subs too) and more in general the orc's race is pretty good already so I don't want to add more units before expanding other races.

I overall agree with the fact, brought up by @Kharaxx, that different subs should not overlap too much but I guess that every sub should at least have some basic infantry and that in many games you might go for one and leave the other based on the strategy you want to achieve (for example savages upgrade faster than uruks and will always have more giant options).

I suppose we can return on this post later, when most of balance issues will be solved (so we can create more :lol: )
Age of Fantasy design leader

Kharaxx
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:55 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Kharaxx » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:46 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:04 am
No anti-mounted ranged definately for now.

1. They are cheaper and in terms of cost/power (raw/buffed by aura) they outpower savage giants A LOT due to better ratio and higher numbers;
2. Higher range of units, units for nearly every situation on the front line.
Sry, I thought of either a anti mounted unit or a ranged one.

1. I haven't unlocked everything are there any upgrades hidden for Uruks other than the level up?

Otherwise my only late game experience is against multiple AI, it might be different against Humans.
In those games I used Town to produse fully upgraded Orcs and it felt better to add the 3 range 2 powerrange Ettin Master or the 11 range Siege Ettin instead of Uruks (They are very similar to Orc)

2. That's a great idea...like a Caragon Rider with a spear or a Ballista?

User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 6897
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:34 pm

Sure, Uruk hai sub looks more like a real army while savage at the moment is a smaller sub made of big ones.

I am leaving them in standby on purpose though
Age of Fantasy design leader

User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 4637
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Uruk Update

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Kharaxx wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:46 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:04 am
No anti-mounted ranged definately for now.

1. They are cheaper and in terms of cost/power (raw/buffed by aura) they outpower savage giants A LOT due to better ratio and higher numbers;
2. Higher range of units, units for nearly every situation on the front line.
Sry, I thought of either a anti mounted unit or a ranged one.

1. I haven't unlocked everything are there any upgrades hidden for Uruks other than the level up?

Otherwise my only late game experience is against multiple AI, it might be different against Humans.
In those games I used Town to produse fully upgraded Orcs and it felt better to add the 3 range 2 powerrange Ettin Master or the 11 range Siege Ettin instead of Uruks (They are very similar to Orc)

2. That's a great idea...like a Caragon Rider with a spear or a Ballista?
those were not suggestions but constatation.

Uruks currently have:
Basic Uruk Hai, on later upgrades becomes better alternative to orc shielder - 62 hp, 27 attack and 6/9 armor when maxed out;
Uruk Archer, better alternative to orc archer;
Uruk Axeman, Uruk hai with power range;
Uruk Pike, anti-cav infantry of uruks with one of the best cost/stats anti-cavs in the whole game;
Caragor rider, cavalry of uruks, can mountain walk;
Olog hai, Tanking mass of destruction.

That what i meant. Uruks have currently wider range of units who also are cheaper.

As for giant rock hurler - did you know that it has 50% base miss chance and it is applied to all units with at least speed 2 (and for each speed point above 2 miss chance is increased by same value, so against unit with speed 5 it has 200% miss chance)?
Uruks on the other hand have 22-34 hp archer with range 6-9 and attack 10-13.

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4195
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Savra » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:02 am

Updated.
Attachments
Uruk warlord grandmaster.png
Uruk warlord grandmaster.png (2.18 KiB) Viewed 277 times
Uruk warlord master.png
Uruk warlord master.png (2.21 KiB) Viewed 277 times
Uruk warlord elite.png
Uruk warlord elite.png (2.19 KiB) Viewed 277 times
Uruk warlord.png
Uruk warlord.png (2.2 KiB) Viewed 277 times

User avatar
Savra
Posts: 4195
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Uruk Update

Post by Savra » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:46 am

@Alexander82 what do you think of the improvement?

Here's red eyed version.
Attachments
Uruk warlord.png
Uruk warlord.png (2.2 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Uruk warlord elite.png
Uruk warlord elite.png (2.19 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Uruk warlord master.png
Uruk warlord master.png (2.21 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Uruk warlord grandmaster.png
Uruk warlord grandmaster.png (2.18 KiB) Viewed 247 times

Post Reply

Return to “Orc”