The Phantom Update

[EldenLigna]

Skeletons and phantoms are just puppets. They can't be "leaders" who are inspiring their units.

Dwarven leader units are working on.

Oh.. I understand now, so you mean they only move according to their lord's wishes, (in this case spectral, lich, and necromancer) making them indirectly the leaders of the undead right isn't it. But I mean the king's skeleton unit comes from the death of a great king and is revived with special spells so that they can move as they wish like your death knight unit, because of this I suggest that the king's skeleton unit can only be produced not revived (in this case by lich, and others) on the dark altar, and only the mansion.

[Dagravian]

Skeletons and phantoms are just puppets. They can't be "leaders" who are inspiring their units.

Dwarven leader units are working on.

Oh.. I understand now, so you mean they only move according to their lord's wishes, (in this case spectral, lich, and necromancer) making them indirectly the leaders of the undead right isn't it. But I mean the king's skeleton unit comes from the death of a great king and is revived with special spells so that they can move as they wish like your death knight unit, because of this I suggest that the king's skeleton unit can only be produced not revived (in this case by lich, and others) on the dark altar, and only the mansion.

Then do suggest that on the right topic, not here xD

[Dagravian]

Anyway, here is the Archer.



And the corpses of everyone.

[Savra]

Looks great, could you maybe try your hand at the juggernaut?

[EldenLigna]

I'm sorry, I'm just too excited about this, exactly after seeing your drawing (even though all I really want is to ask someone to draw this unit for me, because my picture doesn't look promising enough) thank you for listening

[desatixix]

Draw, try it yourself

[Dagravian]

Looks great, could you maybe try your hand at the juggernaut?

Sure, but reading again, i don't understand what it turned to be from the old oversized armor, can you clarify your current idea for it?

[Savra]

Basically it's a stronger shielder, slower, but stronger.

In comparison, the basic phantoms are basically possessed pieces of medium armour, were the juggernaut is possessed heavy armour. It's general role is to basically guard your weak spell casters in the back. If we could give it an aura range of 1 were it takes all damage that would be dealt to allied units next to it then that would be nice too.

If this helps with how it's should feel:

Phantom Juggernaut:
Cost:8
Trains: phantom garrison, necroplis (currently mansion)
Hp:90
Atk:25
Aoe:1
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:2
Arm:5
P.arm:8
Res:100%
Abilities:
(If possible) Guardian: A.rng:1, receives all damage that would be dealt to nearby allies.

E.g. If a uruk axemen swings at this unit and the unit has a skeleton mage on one side, lich on the other, and skeleton archer on the other, all damage that would be dealt to those 3 would instead be added to the amount that would be dealt to it, armour still reduces it.

Another example would be if an elf archer were to try and shoot a necromancer who is standing next to the juggernaut, the juggernaut receives the damage instead.

Bonuses:
150% battering rams
250% buildings
350% fortifications
1050% megas
50% siege
50% giants

Category:
Infantry melee, undead

Can be reanimated.

If you don't get to it, I'll redo it this weekend.

[Alexander82]

I think you should decide if this unit is either a shielder (so high hp/armor, lower damage and no powerrange) or a damage dealer (lower hp/armor but high damage and AoE)

If it is meant to be a shielder the unit's image should be changed accordingly

The ability at the moment can't be done and would make sense only if that unit is a true shielder (so no 2h weapon and a big shield) and it has his stats changed accordingly

More in general all phantoms should have lower stats costwise if compared to imperials as their main feature will be their auto reanimation (that will basically provide free units if the enemy can't dispose of the corpses in time).

Anyway speed should be 3 as it is a human sized unit.

[Dagravian]

Well what i see that he is suggesting is a bastion alike variant, so a heavier shielder... When i think about juggernauts, what comes in mind is mostly a bigger battering ram dude on the frontline, shaking the terrain and making corpses rain, not a rear guard guardian like this, but i like the idea of a personal guardian defending its boss. Like a mini boss you have to face before the main boss. But in general, all phantoms are guardians already, and idk if the name "juggernaut" still fits what he does suggest. Maybe it can stick with Bastion. Also, we can probably merge the halberdier and this bastion in one, since bastions use bigger shields, spears or flails.

Btw, that effect is not 100% possible, effects can only work dealing direct flat dmg or doing dmg reduced by armor, we don't have anything to operate on the level of the effect behavior or efficiency, so we can't redirect effect damage or nullify effect AOE of an instant spell. Btw, i guess it might be possible to create an effect to reduce aoe of base atk of an enemy, a sort of reverse trample, but that would not be usefull if the targeted unit already don't own AOE on its base attack.

[Alexander82]

I think that such a effect wouldn't work well.

A reverse trample wouldn't work as intended as it would act just as a debuff that would be independent from the target of the attack.

I don't think currently is possible that kind of effect (in the past I wanted a damage redirect for shielder units but should be coded on purpose).

We might probably just make a effect on the unit that gives a armor buff in range 1 but lower the caster armor by a certain amount. For example if the unit has 6/6 armor it might go to 0/0 but provide a 3/3 armor bonus to all friendly units in range 1 (so you trade 6/6 armor to potentially get 3/3 on 4 units)

Another chance is for the unit to get a temporary debuff to its total armor but provide an equal amount of armor bonus on a target in its range as long as it stays in place (with new specunitactions it could be possible, otherwise we might just give the armor and debuff speed)

I think such abilities might mostly work for all shielders but I think that we should make it available only for casters or maybe unshielded units of the same size or lower.

Now that elves got 2 shielders as well that might be interesting for them too as they don't get extra hp

[makazuwr32]

I also must admit that bonuses are wrong.
No bonuses to giants or to siege for this "juggernaut".
And lower bonuses to standart infantry bonuses (with additional bonuses to throwers, as all infantries have it).

[Alexander82]

I will give all phantoms units the standard bonuses sed for other units of the same kind

[Savra]

Adjust stats to the way you see fit, Bastion could work as a rename (or we could just make 2 separate variants with the bastion being the shielder type who can guard allies at the cost of a lower defence, and the juggernaut being the damage dealer with the claymore) cost could be lowered to 8, as for the ability being passed on to others I was thinking maybe the dwarven defenders could use this form, as for shielders like the humans and elves and most every other shielder we could just give them a shield wall aura that grants fellow shielders in range 1 a bonus to defence, no debuffs.

Course this won't work with every race, for example armoured orc warriors (orcs aren't organized), skeleton shielders (skeletons aren't organized), elf shielders (they need more mobility to move so they would avoid sticking so close together), and the lizardmen shielders (they have different tactics).

As for elites like sentinels, phantoms, imperials, and dwarf defenders could use it, but Uruks and draconians can't because their shields aren't designed that way.

[Alexander82]

I prefer a more general approach on unit types

The shield other abilities is probably fine for every shielder for all races but it might require a research.

Shield wall was something I would leave only to dwarves and humans. Wood elves rely less on shields in fact their shielders are just a new addition, also a shield wall start from the concept of units staying still so it doesn't blend well with the dodge approach elves are shaped on (maybe rising sun elves might have that though).

[Savra]

Hmm, understandable.

[Savra]

Before I make the corpses, I wanted to make them less like giant looking and more like heavy armour, but here's the bastion and juggernaut.

[Savra]

Updated, they looked like fat pieces of armour.

[Savra]

Corpses.

[Savra]

New stats for each:

Phantom Juggernaut:

Cost:8
Trains:Mansion, phantom garrison
Hp:60
Atk:26
Aoe:1
Rng:1
Spd:3
Sight:3
Arm:4
P.arm:4
Res:100%
Bonuses:
50% infantry
100% buildings, throwers, giants
200% fortifications
700% megas

Phantom Bastion:

Cost:8
Trains:Mansion, Phantom garrison
Hp:90
Atk:20
Rng:2
Sight:3
Spd:3
Arm:6
P.arm:8
Res:100%
Abilities:
Guardian: rng:1, unarmoured units receive +3/+3 to armours, at the cost of -3/-3 to this units armours.
Bonuses:
300% cavalry

[General Brave]

I guess I should start changing them to gold.

[Savra]

I thought gold was shot down?

[Savra]

Anyway, I don't think gold would be a good choice, being that all the phantoms details are in good and it won't show as well. You might get away with adumentium black (no, this doesn't mean their made out of adumentium.) And just call it dark steel or something. (Dark steel as in the style that is in MTG if that's what you want.) I could give an example if you'd like.

[Alexander82]

About bastion can you give it a different weapon, phantoms already have a anti cavalry unit and I prefer not to mix heavy shielders with cavalry bonuses

[Savra]

This is just an example, but if you'd prefer gold then I guess that's fine too.

(Could mess around with the colour a bit to make it a reddish or greenish hue.)

[Savra]

About bastion can you give it a different weapon, phantoms already have a anti cavalry unit and I prefer not to mix heavy shielders with cavalry bonuses

I could try flail.

[Savra]

Flail variant.

[Alexander82]

nice enough, btw I think we should remove shield from the existing spearman one

[makazuwr32]

Actually i would prefer to keep shield for spearman.

[Alexander82]

since shielders will get shield other abilities and other goodies I would prefer to make it loose its shielder status or its anti cavalry status