Ent shaman

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Sunrise Samurai
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Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:31 pm

Ent shaman
Cost 8 at great tree
Hp 20
Power 0
Speed 2
Armor 2/4
Spell resistance 80%
Delayed vanishing aura
Spells:
Rapid growth: mend 100% of target's maximum health. Range 4, works on plant based units only.
Breath of life: healing 10, aoe 2, range 5, cooldown​ 3. Effects anything in the radius, including enemies and buildings.
Camouflage: target allied unit or building gains stealth for 3 turns. Lost if the unit attacks. Range 6 (longer range to allow some distance from the hidden unit or building)

Expensive support caster, capable of mass healing and building up a force of ents or wolves with other mages, plus able to hide your forces.
Last edited by Sunrise Samurai on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:28 am, edited 4 times in total.

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LordOfAles
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:05 pm

Fire burns wood. You get the point. Instead add the lightning to the unit lol
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:14 pm

Fire? I was comparing to fireball as area spell, range, cooldown, etc. Instead of damage, though, it heals everything in the area for 10. Yes, this includes enemies if you aren't careful.
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LordOfAles
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:13 pm

Ohh...gawd it says "breath of life" not "breath of fire"... my bad
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:46 am

Yes, I would love to see a sturdy support unit on the field working with the elves.

Making their breath of life go towards finishing or fixing buildings would make elves more capable engineers. They don't match up well with humans.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:23 am

Sturdy is a relative term. As far as support units go, 20 hp is a lot. As far as actual durability......most melee units will one shot it. Perhaps not early game melee, but this thing takes a great tree plus 8 more turns, so it will only see late game units against it. Still, your 8 cost actually has a small measure of security from ranged attacks. Probably because of speed 2 that it needs the higher defenses

I was actually thinking it would repair buildings, though I had not realized that would include​ helping construction too.
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Ayush Tiwari
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:40 pm

Why not in both great tree and ent trainer
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:43 pm

Mainly because I think delayed vanishing aura is worth requiring a great tree first for elves. Think ents that don't vanish, plus wolves.
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Alexander82
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:04 am

Nice idea but i wouldn't give it summon ent (since it is a ent we can just make it sturdier than a mage with no need for a wall to hide behind) and i would give it a simple mend 30% spell that affect ents and buildings.

The breath of life should have a cooldown of some turns (so it normally use the normal heal) since 10 is basically 100% heal for most of the elven units.
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:35 am

I think Alex is right,we can give another spell instead like....
Splutter of water(This can only be used on anything that is currently burning,this will instantly put off the fire.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:10 am

How about instead of "Summon ent" give it "Wraith of the Forest" - Aura for elt-like units, that gives +10 damage them for 1 turn (so you need to update it every turn)

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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Alexander82 wrote:Nice idea but i wouldn't give it summon ent (since it is a ent we can just make it sturdier than a mage with no need for a wall to hide behind) and i would give it a simple mend 30% spell that affect ents and buildings.

The breath of life should have a cooldown of some turns (so it normally use the normal heal) since 10 is basically 100% heal for most of the elven units.
Alright. Removing summon ent and replacing with 30% mend spell. I guess I wasn't quite clear that breath of life would have cooldown, so I'll adjust it too.
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:44 pm

Worth mentioning is that 3 of these with Alexander's rapid growth spell can give 90% completion to any building in a single turn, including great trees. Definitely another reason to require already having great trees before being able to make these.
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:50 pm

Neat! +1
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:57 pm

Now it just needs an image and I believe it will be ready.
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Alexander82
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:23 pm

Sunrise Samurai wrote:Worth mentioning is that 3 of these with Alexander's rapid growth spell can give 90% completion to any building in a single turn, including great trees. Definitely another reason to require already having great trees before being able to make these.
I didn't consider that.

We might simply give a fixed value so it can't be exploited too much to turnaround the turn cost of buildings.

Or we might test if a negative bonus can be applyed to mega buildings
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:05 am

Meh. Honestly by the time I have a great tree for 8 turns, I've probably already built another one and moved workers onward. These guys would be hard pressed to keep up with a sizable work force. On more limited maps where I wouldn't invest in so many workers, there isn't space for great trees really. Speed 2 with no wagons is the limiting factor for the seemingly overpowered building capabilities, making it look much better on paper than in practice.

He costs the same as a drake knight or death knight, so really is only a very late game consideration, at which point you should have already built your base. If you wait for one of these to build further, you've already lost.

Negative bonus to mega buildings would probably settle the issue anyway. I'd suggest cutting the amount to 15% of the mega building's health, making it still very impressive. I think healing should still be 30% after it is built though.
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:33 pm

I don't think so. In big maps you might basically double or triple the rhythm at which you build your mega buildings. I think that wouldn't be balanced and we can figure out a way around that (like making those building untargettable or affected at a lower degree).
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:45 pm

Lower degree probably works best then. Or we do a large, fixed amount that bypasses build bonus. I don't see much difference between 80 healing on an ent warrior and a troll shaman 100% healing an ettin.

Alternatively, remove building targeting from the spell, and give say 20 mend rate and the ability to build. That would retain the intent without breaking the game. Maybe in the future this could give access to special buildings that can't be built by regular workers even.
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:00 pm

Sunrise Samurai wrote:Lower degree probably works best then. Or we do a large, fixed amount that bypasses build bonus. I don't see much difference between 80 healing on an ent warrior and a troll shaman 100% healing an ettin.

Alternatively, remove building targeting from the spell, and give say 20 mend rate and the ability to build. That would retain the intent without breaking the game. Maybe in the future this could give access to special buildings that can't be built by regular workers even.
Comparatively,elves have one less building(I haven't wolf den till now,but before it came,there was one les building)
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:03 pm

I've updated the original post. Would it be possible to allow building/mending at 4 range?
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:07 pm

Sunrise Samurai wrote:I've updated the original post. Would it be possible to allow building/mending at 4 range?
That won't make it much OP,I think thats a good idea.(btw,that isn't possible,just imagine,lol)
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Alexander82
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:09 pm

This is definitely OP. An instant builder that works on range is out of question.

You start a building oversea and with another ent you complete it in the same turn...

It should have been a healer for ents.

I think we can archive the idea as it is.
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:15 pm

Agree - no mending on this unit.
And can we make it so spells can target only ready unit?

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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:38 pm

What you mean?
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:42 pm

First - it can't build something. Again.
Second - it can use its target healing spell only on completed units. Can't use on units under construction. If that possible.

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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:03 pm

I think it's been misunderstood. The spell is NOT able to target buildings, only units now.

The ability to build is completely separate from the healing. It can build at 4 range, but at only 20 mend rate. The heal is for units only​, and im willing to even make that ents only if healing ships and the like is problematic.

Edit: adjusted original post for clarity, restricted heal to plant based units only (just ents for now)
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:08 pm

Healing is ok the real problem is building. Aside from mega buildings that might benefit too much from healing it would simply be ok if you can't use it on units or buildings under construction.

If you already have a ship and heal it it might be ok. Anyway I think it might overlap too much with the wood shaper.

I think we need to finalize some straightforward units for all races for the next votes.
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Re: Ent shaman

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:27 am

Alexander82 wrote:Anyway I think it might overlap too much with the wood shaper.

I think we need to finalize some straightforward units for all races for the next votes.
Wood shaper: you might have a point. I tend to forget units that win the vote, but aren't implemented yet are something we need to consider when I make suggestions from the current state of the game. I think removing building entirely is pretty reasonable to avoid that overlap. Editing​ that now.

Not sure what you meant with that last line though.
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