Pyrotechnics

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phoenixffyrnig
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Pyrotechnics

Post by phoenixffyrnig » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:20 am

I'm sticking it here cos it kinda fits, but it's more of an abstract idea than anything specific. Can we have something incendiary please?

I'm guessing, way back when, the fire archer was a useful unit. But now, what with ships with over 100hp, golden rams, and 2 building upgrades, the -5 per turn seems pretty insignificant.

I feel there is a call for updating the combustible side of affairs. Possibilities could be...
A fire archer upgrade,
A M2TW style naffatun (I think has been mentioned before)
A pyrotechnics tech, which when researched, improves all burning attacks; towers, archers, ships, raiders, the lot.

And separately, but related, murder holes would be pretty cool to have on castles. At the expense of one action, it dumps a whole lot of hell fire onto an adjacent unit. Again, I'm thinking significantly more than -5, especially as this is a range 1 attack, rather than an incendiary missile.

I don't have a clue how to do anything like balancing, or designing images, so if this idea has got legs, someone else is going to have to run with it.
I also play an RTS game called Life 8-)

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godOfKings
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by godOfKings » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:05 am

The purpose of nerfing fire archer is so that long ranged units dont have op damage, there r many ways to use them, u can use them in siege towers and galleons where they r protected. For high damage attacks u will have to use triremes, cannons etc. If burning destroys rams easily then how will they b effective against 2k+ hp castles?
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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Squirrel5555
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by Squirrel5555 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:01 am

so that long ranged units dont have op damage :lol:
cannons and catapults and other siege weapons do lots of damage, not only to building but also to units, some with multiple shots a turn or AoE

phoenixffyrnig
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by phoenixffyrnig » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:05 pm

Was fire archer like a balrog on steroids back in the day? I'm fairly new so don't have any idea of how things were way back when.

I was giving fire archer as an example / option, don't have to increase his attack, I just think burning effect needs a boost. Even if you have them hid somewhere safe, 3 turns of attack only gives you 30 burn effect, which is pretty negligible.

Re rams and castles...seriously?? From memory, a double upgraded castle is 2250, and a golden ram (Aries Auric) does 206ish damage... so we're looking at 11 turns...hardly a walk in the park anyway. But murder holes were a massive part of castle defence in real life, I don't think it should be ruled out of the game just because it makes a ram attack harder. I'm not suggesting reducing them to a pile of ash in one go, but -5 hp is pretty pointless these days against a lot of things.
I also play an RTS game called Life 8-)

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Endru1241
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:40 am

Well - just to be more precise - 3 turns, so 3 attacks of fire archer gives 3x5 turns burning damage. Base burning damage is indeed 4, but most of targets get 6. Buildings, Ships and Siege machines are like that ( ships and siege since few updates ago, buildings for a long time). Mega buildings, including castle get 124 damage. So 3 fire archer attacks is actually 60 damage on non-building structures and non-siege machines (e.g. traps, ornithopters, wagons), 90 damage on ships, buildings and siege machines and 1860 damage on mega-buildings.

It might seem negligible, because in multiplayer games there is a lot of workers fixing it immediately.

About more incendiaries - there is a topic for greek fire thrower (infantry unit throwing granade-like vase with napalm) - it mostly lacks image. I have also planned to introduce cheaper tower with fire archer attack (but lower range and defence) - don't have an inspiration for image though.
Other greek fire usage could also be introduced.
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phoenixffyrnig
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by phoenixffyrnig » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:24 pm

Sorry Endru, I misunderstand. Are the numbers you are quoting all for a combination of three FA attacks? And does bonus attack affect burn damage aswell as the initial strike?

And am I allowed to mention murder holes again without sounding obsessed? ;) thanks for responding too, you must be pretty busy with all this.
I also play an RTS game called Life 8-)

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Endru1241
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:49 pm

The numbers are overall fire damage of 3 attacks (so what is dealt in 5 turns in case of 3 immidate aplications of burn effect).
I skipped regular arrow damage.

Damage from effects (weapon effects, abilities) is unaffected by anything unit has.
But they may have their own bonuses.
Burn has 4 base damage, +50% vs building, ship and siege machine categories. Also +3000% vs mega building category.
Cannon shot from galleon has cannon bonuses, trebuchet shor from upg. castle has trebuchet bonuses, pretorian pilum has +50% vs light and medium infantry etc.
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phoenixffyrnig
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by phoenixffyrnig » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:47 pm

Ah now I see. OK, I didn't realise burn effect also had boni, I will play around with my little arsonists more often now :)
I also play an RTS game called Life 8-)

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godOfKings
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Re: Pyrotechnics

Post by godOfKings » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:49 pm

Squirrel5555 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:01 am
so that long ranged units dont have op damage :lol:
cannons and catapults and other siege weapons do lots of damage, not only to building but also to units, some with multiple shots a turn or AoE
A single cavalier can one shot upgraded canoneer, but do nothing to a fire archer hidden is siege tower, also i believe cannoneers and catapults have high chance to miss cavaliers, dealing about 10 damage at most no?

I once missed an elite foot knight with both cannoneer and catapult... Wasting such high damage attacks... With about 6 armors, it barely got 4 damage from missed catapult attack
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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