Road's

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Belosteel
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Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:44 am

What if we made road's that give +1 speed if a unit is standing on it?
I think it will make the game more interesting better looking and more tactical instead of just transporting your builder unit's as fast as possible to the front line to make structures.
Also big maps will be played more and if you want a quik match small maps will be played faster.

If we want to better the look of the game some structures like town centers, barrack's etc, needs to be bigger to make them look nicer.
This idea came up to me when i tried to redesign the barrack's into a smaller building with an outside training square but failed because i didn't have enough pixel size and it turned out ugly.

Image

Something like this?

IRONBLASTER36
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Re: Road's

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:58 am

Nice Idea, well I think this will yearn better results in Age of world war. Let's see what the dev has to say

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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:04 am

it is already like that in aow

IRONBLASTER36
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Re: Road's

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:14 am

Well it doesn't add movement rather it decreases movement in forests and mountains, but what about plain ground. It doesn't work the same on plain ground. Well do not add movement for tanks on plain ground (they are meant for that) but add 1 movement to vehicles like jimmy transport, half truck, jeep (forgot the name sorry).
Screenshot_2019-10-04-13-39-31-018.jpeg

Here is an example. Add this feature to above mentioned units.

Belosteel
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Re: Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:14 am

So lets implement this in age of strategy too?
It would be nice to make it constructable so you can plan and make a path to reinforce a location point.

Belosteel
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Re: Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:33 am

If this gets implemented i do understand that some maps with roads on it need to be re-edited but i can help with building new maps and re-edit the maps that are now in play.

IRONBLASTER36
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Re: Road's

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:37 am

Well, in AOS, we have troops on foot, means they have to walk and earlier they were trained for that so adding it in AOS wouldn't make sense.

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Endru1241
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Re: Road's

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:32 am

We already have road tile.
To make it boost speed it would be needed to change every unit stats (ment to be affected) and add to trnWalkTerrain: [{"terrainType":"TERRAIN_ROAD", "modifier":1.34}].
If it was all units - it's not that hard.
But the more selective approach - the worse it is (more time consuming).
Unfortunately there is no way to change ("construct") terrain tiles.

There is also another way to add speed boosting roads - bridge like unit, which has aura giving speed.
This way it would be buildable and destroyable, but unfortulately no enemy could use this. It could be either:
1. Destroyed when enemy steps on it.
2. Enemy cannot stand on it, but can pass, so often it has to be destroyed.
3. I could (probably) be made occupable and passable. Wagons, scouts, flying and siege machines couldn't step on it before claiming it by other units.

And no ally could step on it.
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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:09 pm

IRONBLASTER36 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:14 am
Well it doesn't add movement
it does, check infantry.

also i had to remove big attachemnts - please use external link.

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Re: Road's

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:56 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:09 pm
IRONBLASTER36 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:14 am
Well it doesn't add movement
it does, check infantry.

also i had to remove big attachemnts - please use external link.
K. Sorry I'll link em from now. Well I personally think that it wouldn't be that useful for infantry, it doesn't make that great sense too. Infantry were trained for such terrains, they knew they wouldn't get roads in the battlefield. Plus I don't think it would increase their speed, since they are still walking. It would look real if vehicles got speed boost on road, since vehicles speed depend on terrain beneath them. I think we should remove transport truck's ability to get into forest. Since tanks are heavy and can just smash through trees (well that's bad with respect to global warming but that was history :( ) but units like jeep, transport truck cannot. They're light weight vehicles and if they try to smash the tree, I won't be sure of what happens to tree but their engines are gonna be smashed for sure. Maybe you can change their speed to 1 in forest. Infantry are on foot units their speed is not much affected by the terrain, they're swift and agile (except elevated terrains, eg: cliff, hills, etc. ) Infantry should have constant speed on almost every terrain.

Belosteel
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Re: Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:10 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:32 am

If it was all units - it's not that hard.
Let all units enemy and ally have the ability to use it, after all it works like that in real life too.
Also it would spice up battles if your attack failed and you're being pushed back on the very own road you build.
It could spark some new interesting ideas too like trapped roads for instance.

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Re: Road's

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:26 pm

Belosteel wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:10 pm
Endru1241 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:32 am

If it was all units - it's not that hard.
Let all units enemy and ally have the ability to use it, after all it works like that in real life too.
Also it would spice up battles if your attack failed and you're being pushed back on the very own road you build.
It could spark some new interesting ideas too like trapped roads for instance.
I guess that would unbalance the game hugely too aside from technical reasons.

Belosteel
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Re: Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:42 pm

IRONBLASTER36 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:26 pm
Belosteel wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:10 pm
Endru1241 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:32 am

If it was all units - it's not that hard.
Let all units enemy and ally have the ability to use it, after all it works like that in real life too.
Also it would spice up battles if your attack failed and you're being pushed back on the very own road you build.
It could spark some new interesting ideas too like trapped roads for instance.
I guess that would unbalance the game hugely too aside from technical reasons.
Maybe but that is fixable.
I think it will optimize the game alot, because it will make it faster and that's a big problem in this game, people lose their patience and if we make a real time multiplayer game like alot of people want, this is must.
Real time games must be somewhere around 20-30 min and i dont see this happening if unit's walk 4-5 tiles not counting the 3 step ones.

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Re: Road's

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:55 pm

There is a problem - either roads will be buildable, but kinda tricky (boosts only units standing on them no matter whre they go later - kinda like ground bridge with bonus speed) or percentage bonus movement on road terrain tiles.
Engine doesn't allow for terrain tiles change, so the latter one allows faster movement only where map creator put road tiles.
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Re: Road's

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:16 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:55 pm
There is a problem - either roads will be buildable, but kinda tricky (boosts only units standing on them no matter whre they go later - kinda like ground bridge with bonus speed) or percentage bonus movement on road terrain tiles.
Engine doesn't allow for terrain tiles change, so the latter one allows faster movement only where map creator put road tiles.
Terrain tile boost is the best option, because the other ones would make it kinda unrealistic (why will an enemy destroy road, under usual circumstances, history notes of such events too, but they are rare). Well this mechanism is already enforced in Age of World Wars, make it like that. I suggest only cavalry and siege engines get this kind of boost. As I said, humans (or any foot soldier) cannot increase their speed out of nowhere, they are trained for uneven surface. Well if you're adding speed for roads then please also decrease speed of cavalry and siege engine in forests. These will bring that balance and will add that missing element of realism. While normal foot units will have constant speed almost everywhere, well to totally balance that I suggest foot units get an ability to travel through mountains, with a speed penalty of maybe 2 or 1 (I suggest 1, since the game is already very slow paced, but we cannot nil the speed penalty here, since int's energy consuming to climb hills)

Note: The mechanism mentioned above (both road,forest and hill ones) are already implemented in Aoww, so it is possible, but will need to put more efforts. It would be a great improvement, it would add an element of realism, make it fast pace and more indulging.

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Re: Road's

Post by IRONBLASTER36 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:17 pm

Belosteel wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:42 pm
IRONBLASTER36 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:26 pm
Belosteel wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:10 pm


Let all units enemy and ally have the ability to use it, after all it works like that in real life too.
Also it would spice up battles if your attack failed and you're being pushed back on the very own road you build.
It could spark some new interesting ideas too like trapped roads for instance.
I guess that would unbalance the game hugely too aside from technical reasons.
Maybe but that is fixable.
I think it will optimize the game alot, because it will make it faster and that's a big problem in this game, people lose their patience and if we make a real time multiplayer game like alot of people want, this is must.
Real time games must be somewhere around 20-30 min and i dont see this happening if unit's walk 4-5 tiles not counting the 3 step ones.
👍

Belosteel
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Re: Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:25 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:55 pm
There is a problem - either roads will be buildable, but kinda tricky (boosts only units standing on them no matter whre they go later - kinda like ground bridge with bonus speed) or percentage bonus movement on road terrain tiles.
Engine doesn't allow for terrain tiles change, so the latter one allows faster movement only where map creator put road tiles.
Hmm yes i see, so if the road will be like a bridge with a plus 1 speed buff then you can cheat and build a road once every 4-5 tiles so you won't have to make a continuous road. Yeah that won't do you probably need to code some line's to give the speed buff only if you stay on the path i don't know if that's hard to do.
@Stratego (dev) any opinions on this is this possible?
Or maybe you have a different idea?

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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:38 pm

Now Endru if the first line for such decisions :)

Belosteel
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Re: Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:59 pm

I don't know about the abilities of people here because im quite new, so that's why i asked u about if its possible to code that because you're the developer after all and the topic says that enderu is the design leader that's quite different.
But no problems if endru knows about coding from now on I'll ask him about such topics. @Endru1241

Belosteel
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Re: Road's

Post by Belosteel » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:01 pm

Hmm yes i see, so if the road will be like a bridge with a plus 1 speed buff then you can cheat and build a road once every 4-5 tiles so you won't have to make a continuous road. Yeah that won't do, you probably need to code some line's to give the speed buff only if you stay on the path i don't know if that's hard to do. Do you know any other easier ways or is it not hard to code? @Endru1241

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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:19 pm

Belosteel wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:59 pm
I don't know about the abilities of people here because im quite new, so that's why i asked u about if its possible to code that because you're the developer after all and the topic says that enderu is the design leader that's quite different.
But no problems if endru knows about coding from now on I'll ask him about such topics. @Endru1241
ok, no problem. btw it does not need coding. only json configuration.(as set in AOW)

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Re: Road's

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:56 pm

I agree with roads boosting speed - this could make large maps less tedious.
I could easily give all units e.g. 1.34 movement bonus on road tile, but it only works, when there are roads.
In most maps there are none.
What actually requires coding is road creation. The most elegant solution with roads is normal map tiles. But there is no way to build them while playing.
I know map tiles manipulation was mentioned many times before and from what I remember it's been said it's really hard to implement.
I can think of a partial solution, which could have easier coding - when engine reads isCarrierRemovesTerrainDrawbacks it could read additional field like "carrierSelfTerrainType" and treat it as given terrain type. It would allow for buildings modifying terrain movement (like forest road ).
Well, it still wouldn't allow for allies stepping on it.
I'm just not sure if it's worth it.

Developer lack of time and weariness are two most dreadful things for any independent game.
So let's be moderate with any coding requests.
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Re: Road's

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:25 pm

I added partial solution in the pack - roads buildable in forests. They do not boost speed, but allow for movement by units previously incapable of one in forests. When it's tested by more people and there is no problem we could think of something more.
Here are the images attached.
It's joinable like bridge.
If anyone feels like improving it - feel free to modify. There is just few things to remember - engine doesn't know in which way first part is set - it will always use unit_bld_road.png. Image should be universal, so forget about any perspective, that would look weird when unit is standing on it.

@Stratego (dev) What do You think about :
when engine reads isCarrierRemovesTerrainDrawbacks it could read additional field like "carrierSelfTerrainType" and treat it as given terrain type
? Would it be possible to implement? Would it take much time?
It would allow for few new possibilities (I think of sailable canal mainly - sailable version of moat).
Attachments
unit_bld_road.png
unit_bld_road.png (1.93 KiB) Viewed 305 times
unit_bld_road_set.png
unit_bld_road_set.png (7.48 KiB) Viewed 305 times
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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:41 pm

isCarrierRemovesTerrainDrawbacks : please email me about it

roads: will not work good this way, imagine an enemy approaching being not able to step on the road.

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Re: Road's

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:53 pm

I know it would still lack (no ally access), but at least with "CAN_BE_PASSED_BY_ENEMY" and "IS_OCCUPIABLE" specActions it somehow works (only blocks units not being able to occupy and allies).
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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:08 pm

i rather make terrain (actually decoration) like roads. that anyone can pass and anyone can have movement bonus on it

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Re: Road's

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:27 pm

But can terrain tiles layer be modified while playing by some ability/build?

The whole point is to allow building roads.
I just presented a little buggy shortcut - there is no way it would be as good as real tile modification.
Also, the worse thing - not allowing ally access - would be solved along with bridge one, which already is on implement list, so at least it seemed logical to use this fact.
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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:31 am

But can terrain tiles layer be modified while playing by some ability/build?
decoration layer version: yes on non TMX maps i can do it (i haveplanned it already o let some units chop decoration level trees making it to be grassland (or whatever terrain was underneath)

unit layer version: i dont suggest roads as buildings/units atm as they would cause weird workings for enemy units and for AI too.
but we can sort out all problems - please list here, maybe we can solve those too.

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Re: Road's

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:28 am

Wait, so besides obstacles and forests, roads and bridges could be on decoration layer?
If so it would solve many things.

Should we list all problems concerning roads ?
Or just this implementation of roads?
Or all problems with bridge like structures?
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Re: Road's

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:15 am

listing: all problems with current bridge like things (on unit layer) as u tried the road.

on decorations layer: road could "change" actual decoration to a road decoration.

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