new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Suggestions about the gameplay, the controls, buttons and so on.

Moderator: Endru1241

User avatar
Puss_in_Boots
Posts: 2686
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 am

Conversion Meter

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:12 pm

Deletes the frustrating chance out of getting a unit converted, and failing to convert a unit. As well as the inability of calculating when you will get your units converted.

Every unit will have at least 100/100 faith. This faith can be altered in map triggers for certain moments where it is necessary to convert the unit, or you want some units to be virtually unconvertable.

My proposed equation is this:
(SP × SR%) = C
C/100 - F/100 = Unit's Current Faith.
If more than one team are competing for a unit the one who gets last hits recieves the unit's "faith"

A friendly units faith bar can be restored like this
(SP ÷ SR%) = C
C/100 + F/100 = Unit's Current Faith
RED, WHITE and BLUE!

Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9564
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm

You will not believe but exactly the same thing was in my mind today!
My idea was:
You convert, chance calculated, if miss than a instability added to target unit based on to priest convert probability
On next attempt the converter has extra probabiility because the instability
If again miss than again an instability added to target unit
And so on, gets more and more probanlble to convert.

Also if attempts stop than instability vanishes from target unit with time eg. 3turns.

User avatar
Sunrise Samurai
Posts: 2650
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:21 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:47 pm

Nice idea. Could add "propaganda" techs to raise max loyalty.
Currently residing at the local ninja academy. I'm still watching though.

Dan301002
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:54 am
Location: ?????

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by Dan301002 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:57 am

Good one, but "Propaganda"? Don't they have "Loyalty" tech? "Loyalty" tech already pretty much obsoletes the converting chances though (for damage).
Currently exploring the wonder of dimension.

User avatar
Sunrise Samurai
Posts: 2650
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:21 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:38 am

Well, loyalty stabilizes things to ensure your troops don't switch sides on you, just might die out of nowhere. I'd say loyalty could be level 2 of propaganda, making your units hard to convert first, then just almost dying via conflict of loyalty.
Currently residing at the local ninja academy. I'm still watching though.

xXGen.ZeroXx
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:39 am
Location: eastern united states

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by xXGen.ZeroXx » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:41 pm

I like this idea and support it!! Units having faith and being able to alter that faith at any given time or when you really need to convert a unit, to me, adds a political stand point if I may!! Propaganda research to stabilize your units loyalty, adding more depth to an already extensive experience!! The pen really is mightier than the sword o.o

Opinion: I also think faith should affect healing capabilities now that conversion would be calculatable!! Like say heal cost a certain amount of faith ? Just an idea, not the best but a start :)

Thanks pussinboots- really awesome idea!! Looking forward to seeing this implemented!!
Just remember what I said, 'Cause it isn't over yet!!

User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by godOfKings » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:56 pm

All newly created units start of with a loyalty meter with 100 loyalty points (100 is maximum point)

Every time unit gets damage loyalty point decreases by 5 (no matter the damage)
Loyalty point cannot b less than 1 wen only gets damage

If enemy healer tries to convert, spell possibility is the amount of loyalty point damaged, if loyalty point becomes 0 or less, unit joins enemy side but starts of with 1 point (so a priest with persuasion has 100% conversion after enemy gets attacked 6 times, but after converting unit is vulnerable to conversion by other enemy healers)

If unit's loyalty point didn't get damaged previous turn it will increase by 10 points on current turn, this is calculated by comparing loyalty point of current turn with previous turn, if it is same it increases by 10, but it cannot increase more than 100

If loyalty point is 1 on current turn it will become 11 next turn regardless the damage from attacks

Spell resistance affects loyalty damage of healers using the same calculations currently used

If loyalty tech is researched, HP of unit decreases instead of changing sides, but loyalty point still becomes 1

Using this system healers can never miss, they simply deal a loyalty damage and convert wen loyalty point is 0

An enemy player or ally player cannot see loyalty meter of Ur unit, only u can see it

Its time to make conversion strategic instead of depending on chance, also it will become easier to convert back Ur unit if it was previously converted by enemy
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by godOfKings » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:12 pm

And war elephants will need to b converted at least twice before it changes side
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

User avatar
Belfry777
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am
Location: AZ

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by Belfry777 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:48 pm

wow
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

mickmackmike
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:09 am

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by mickmackmike » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:02 pm

I think something like this makes sense. I recently played a small map no upgrades water map and sent 4 priests in a wagon and second transport to convert 3 catapults... Didn't convert one and that was the game.... ... ... It would be good if conversion was somewhat more predictable...

User avatar
Puss_in_Boots
Posts: 2686
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 am

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:54 pm

That's exactly why I made this post. I want conversion to be more of calculations than chance. Rng for hit chance is enough for me. Nobody wants to use healers or even see them because they are awfully hard to predict.
RED, WHITE and BLUE!

User avatar
LordOfAles
Posts: 3659
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Montenegro

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:42 pm

We could add blue bar for conversion below the green one for health
The Crusade never ends...

User avatar
Puss_in_Boots
Posts: 2686
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 am

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 pm

I was definitely thinking a blue would work great for the conversion bar; would fit in right below the health bar. :)
RED, WHITE and BLUE!

User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by godOfKings » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:59 pm

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5068 I made this topic without knowing of its existence can someone merge?
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

User avatar
COOLguy
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:58 am
Location: Nenuial, Arnor

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by COOLguy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:17 pm

Thanks for finding that. merged and moved here
Thanks!
Josh

User avatar
Puss_in_Boots
Posts: 2686
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:23 am

Re: Conversion Meter

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:47 pm

Yeah, that "New Idea" label slapped there is kinda misleading. :lol:

I don't really see people actually discussing this idea.
I think we could use a better equation to calculate conversion.
RED, WHITE and BLUE!

User avatar
Belfry777
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am
Location: AZ

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by Belfry777 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:39 pm

The way I converted was using the spell resistance so like if it's a 75% spell resistance it would take me like 3 tries. That's how I converted, but when the tech conversion was researched it through my way off, I like this idea a lot!
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by godOfKings » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:03 am

So to summarise my idea, current spell possibly shall become damage to loyalty points, as puss said loyalty points will b 100 so it takes at least 5 tries for normal healer to convert, and ale's idea of blue bar to represent this metre is also a great idea

Now the point where my idea is different, wen a unit gets atked it will automatically get 5 loyalty damage every time it is atked so u could reduce enemy's loyalty to less than healer's damage and then convert it instantly, or u could healer gang up on the enemy to convert it, 5 healers in the beginning or two healers with persuasion tech can convert it instantly (considering unit has zero spell resistance, if it has some resistance then healer's loyalty damage is reduced by same calculations as used currently) also loyalty points regenerate automatically by 10 points each turn if the unit was neither atked nor any conversion attempt was made on it last turn, the condition for the regeneration is whether or not loyalty point is same as last turn and its less than 100,

if the unit is only atked its loyalty point cannot b less than 1, if it is converted then it joins the enemy team with 1 loyalty point, at this time it is vulnerable to more conversion so u cant just send a newly converted unit to the enemy wen there is an enemy healer on their side, wen loyalty point is 1 it will b the same as last turn since it cannot decrease anymore than 1 so according to the condition it will heal to 11 next turn no matter how many times the unit was atked or converted last turn
Last edited by godOfKings on Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

User avatar
Belfry777
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am
Location: AZ

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by Belfry777 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:44 pm

I see what you are saying "gok" and I think it can be explained a bit easier like this...

here is the blue bar, (the unit is a sword man) ====== < blue bar (6 points some units could get more that others)
now a healer comes up a tries converting ===== < blue bar (loss of one point now 5)
the player is dumb and dose not kill the healer so another conversion try ==== < blue bar (converted! the sword man now only has 4 conversion points left)

so if the player that originally had the sword man comes with a healer and tries to convert it will be easier because he only has 4 bars of conversion points left
if the unit has no conversion points left it would only take one try to convert. I hope this explains "gok's" idea!
.
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

User avatar
General Brave
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:12 am
Location: The Four Point Military Academy.

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by General Brave » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:19 pm

This doesn't seem like a great idea, unless you like everything to be harder to convert.
Wise, Might, Loyalty. Forever stands Warfell.

User avatar
Belfry777
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am
Location: AZ

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by Belfry777 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:52 pm

No actually easier because you could see your progress.
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

User avatar
General Brave
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:12 am
Location: The Four Point Military Academy.

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by General Brave » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:22 pm

Just because I could see it, it's not easier, it's probably wasteful thing to do. Unless there's no enemy range units around and the thing you're trying to convert can't get your healer.
Wise, Might, Loyalty. Forever stands Warfell.

User avatar
Belfry777
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am
Location: AZ

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by Belfry777 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:47 pm

I beg to differ.
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

User avatar
General Brave
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:12 am
Location: The Four Point Military Academy.

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by General Brave » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:22 am

Well we can try to test it out, to see if people like it.
Wise, Might, Loyalty. Forever stands Warfell.

User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by godOfKings » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:48 am

my idea was, suppose loyalty bar is 20 or less, at that moment healer can deal the '20' damage and convert it instantly, so instead of spell possibility it becomes an atk that deals damage to loyalty of a unit and wen loyalty is 0 the unit shall b converted to enemy side, but after it is converted the loyalty bar is 1, so another enemy healer might now convert it more easily, but if the unit isnt atked his loyalty point increases by 10 each turn until it is hundred again
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

User avatar
LordOfAles
Posts: 3659
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Montenegro

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:31 pm

Every unit would have it's own conversion resistance and conversion points, so I honestly don't see why is this "worse", because healers won't be "O dam I couldn't do it", now they will be "oh well, conversion meter says so". it adds more strategy to the game
The Crusade never ends...

User avatar
Belfry777
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am
Location: AZ

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by Belfry777 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:33 am

Still remember There is still a small chance to be converted at block one in the blue metear idea, but maybe we could change that like Lordofalses was saying..
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by godOfKings » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:12 am

and my extra suggestion to the strategy is, every unit (except may b workers and transports) shall have a base attack of 5 loyalty damage, this doesnt need to b shown in the stats sheet, so u could try to atk high hp units like elephant to reduce their loyalty and then try to convert, even a unit dealing 1 damage might become more useful than a unit that can one hit kill, because u know that once u have reduced enough loyalty of the enemy unit u can then convert it, as an addition to the strategy i thought may b opponent players wont b able to see the loyalty bar of ur units, only u can, so u know which unit u can trust to send forward and which unit is likely to betray u if u push them too hard
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

User avatar
Belfry777
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am
Location: AZ

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by Belfry777 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:26 pm

So what's the difference between this new idea and your previous one?
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: new conversion idea: loyalty meter

Post by godOfKings » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:23 am

Nothing, its just explanation so that u guys can better understand my idea, and its strategical uses
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

Post Reply

Return to “Gameplay & UI”