mounted teutonic knight IMPLEMENTED

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silentz27
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mounted teutonic knight IMPLEMENTED

Post by silentz27 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:22 am

A historical units that helps the crusaders in battle that conquer Europe's and nearby country
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silentz27
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Re: new unit teutonic knight

Post by silentz27 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:30 am

Their are popular because of their unique helm
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Ness

Re: new unit teutonic knight

Post by Ness » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:37 pm

Teutonic knight was already suggested

silentz27
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Re: new unit teutonic knight

Post by silentz27 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:58 pm

ahm ok but its cool add this in the location of that idea
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this
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Darkknight
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Re: new unit teutonic knight

Post by Darkknight » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:24 am

would it be simillar to a knight?

Ness

Re: new unit teutonic knight

Post by Ness » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:28 am

Sounds too similar.

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Alexander82
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Re: new unit teutonic knight

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:07 pm

It might be an elite knight like the hussars and such, but there is already something about that unit
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silentz27
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Re: new unit teutonic knight

Post by silentz27 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:52 am

strong againts all type of unit ahahaha
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Ayush Tiwari
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:39 am

Yes and it can be a very great Castle unit especially in huge sized maps :P .
This one had my 50 posts completed.
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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:02 pm

I see this topic hasn't been touched in quite a long while
I created a sprite for a mounted Teutonic Knight however its my first sprite ever and I don't know if this is a correct style. It lacks shading and things like horns on the helmet, crosses on the cloak and details on the banner however i can work on this. Also i made it on a random software and i don't know if a specific one is necessary for this game. If this is the case, please point me in the right direction :D
This is just my first try and I am open to suggestions and help.
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Mounted Teutonic Knight.png
Mounted Teutonic Knight.png (849 Bytes) Viewed 988 times

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Endru1241
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:07 pm

This image seems cut on the top. If You cannot fit image inside 32x32px limit - it can be increased to 32x64 (but beware - most units is only 35-37 px in height).
Software for image manipulation: for android pixly, for windows, linux, macos - gimp.
Well You can use photoshop if You have license for one, but honestly - if You don't need to use Adobe Color Space, then Gimp is not in any way worse.

The best way to start on unit images is getting existing unit image and changing it a little to fit new unit description.
It can also be e.g. a hybrid of few images - parts of weapon and armor from existing Teuton (more like similar to it, because he is facing front), horse from some knight unit.
Technical specifics can be found at Unit design - image requirements
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unit_teuton.png
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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:30 pm

Okay, thank you. Like i said earlier, this was just my first try so I'll give it another go later. I knew the style wasn't right but i couldn't find a topic which would help me start.

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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:44 pm

I've created an updated version, which I based on the Cavalier sprite. Any suggestions?

There could also be a version with a lance, pig-snout bascinet and feathers, and a more square shield.
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Teutonic Knight Mounted.png
Teutonic Knight Mounted.png (1.21 KiB) Viewed 977 times

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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:23 pm

As for stats, i would propose it followed a similar pattern as the current Teutonic Knight, who is slightly better than the 3rd tier of swordsman and takes 1 turn more to produce. This one would be slightly more powerful than 3rd tier knight (cavalier), have a special ability and cost 1 turn more to produce.

Cost: 5
HP: 44 (one less than cavalier)
Power: 15 (one more than cavalier)
Range: 1
Armor: 3/3
Spd: 5 or 4
Sight: 5
Can only be built in Castle
Same conversion ability as Teutonic Knight/alternatively some kind of fear mechanic, caused by the intimidating look given by horns on the helmet

+50% against ranged,melee foot,siege machine and +100% against siege machine armored

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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:03 pm

Sprites for 3 new potential units: :) :?:
Teutonic Knight - proposed stats above
Teutonic Lancer - no stats yet
Hochmeister - no stats yet, i suggest centurion-like buffs to other teutonic units

Please comment with suggestions for stats, abilities and sprites. :D
Attachments
Teutonic Knight Mounted with Horns.png
Teutonic Knight Mounted with Horns.png (1.38 KiB) Viewed 928 times
Teutonic Lancer no banner.png
Teutonic Lancer no banner.png (1.77 KiB) Viewed 928 times
Hockmeister.png
Hockmeister.png (1.61 KiB) Viewed 928 times

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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:59 am

Teutonic Lancer stats:
Cost:5
HP: 29
Power:8
Range:1
Armor 2/3
Speed: 5 or 4
Sight: 5
Can only be built in castle
conversion ability/fear mechanic
+50% against ranged,melee foot, siege machine and +400% against mounted and +700% against elephant

Hochmeister stats:
Cost: 7
HP: ~40
Power: 10
Range:1
Armour: 4/2
Speed: 5 or 4
Sight: 5
Spell resistance
Can only be built in castle, or maybe only in High Castle
Gives buffs to only TEUTONIC (maybe also CRUSADER )units around him, similar buffs to centurion
Maybe conversion ability or fear mechanic?
+50% against ranged,melee foot,siegemachine and +100% against siege machine armoured

Any suggestions? :)

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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:05 pm

@Endru1241 what do you think of these?

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Endru1241
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:08 pm

Graphics:
Teutonic Knight Mounted with Horns.png
Those horns are a little too long and they look like they are connected. You could try to shorten them by a pixel or two.
Teutonic Lancer no banner.png
He looks good, but I wonder if teutonic enough. Maybe horse barding could have 1px more wide black stripes
Hockmeister.png
The same as lancer wider black strip, maybe additionally a little bigger cross on the cape.
Despite the cape he still doesn't look leader enough (more like elite of the order), so maybe add him some banner, attached on the back of saddle.

Also all of them have little percentage of team colors (the same elements on foot unit are bigger part of the image), so maybe horns and feathers in team colors?

Stats:
Mounted Teutonic Knight - with 5 speed and conversion he should be balanced. But I would decrease his p.armor to Cavalier level just to be sure. Maybe increase normal one instead.
Lancer on the other hand is much too powerful. +1 with lancer bonuses really gives +5 vs regular mounted and +8 vs elephants. Again - additional p.armor is especially dangerous balance-wise in case of fast units. Even more in lancer. 3/2 would be much safer.
And with currently working damage bonuses +2 from aura to lancer damage is too good. Both japanese and roman units don't have easily accessible anti-mounted units.

Generally after little changes it's fine and all, but castle concept was to produce units with unique abilities, not regular ones. Teuton was supposed to be more resilent converter - with capabilities of dealing good damage on inconvertible things - buildings and rams. Maybe his damage is still too high to properly fit the role.
And those proposed units are just good units - good lancer, good knight and differently colored centurion

As I see there are three ways to deal with those conflicting concepts:
1. Ignore adding units.
2. Ignore castle concept and just made a mess of the castle.
3. Split castle to mitigate the issue of concept.
As there is already a proposition for monastery - a healing castle version and it's almost sure to train templars and hospitallers. Why not just put all order units there, along with crusaders.
Teutons could another castle type - specialised in conversion.
The exact balancing of most important castle units (trebuchet!) trainability could be discussed in dedicated topic.
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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:30 pm

I suggested to put them in Castle as I noticed it lacked units which would be trained there. I thought that adding more units there, in the form of these 3, it might provide an alternative to heavy knights/cavaliers which are currently one of the only options as far as top tier cavalry goes. This could potentially change the way people played as they could invest in a castle for a slightly different cavalry unit, instead of sticking to the same route always. However keeping the Castle special is also a good idea, and i think that as a order of knights the Teuton units would fit well in the monastery.

The Hochmeister is a cavalry version of the Centurion, who mainly buffs roman foot soldiers, while Hochmeister would mainly buff cavalry, so i thought it would be different enough to justify adding in.

Thanks for the response :D
Ill try make some graphical changes like you said. :mrgreen:

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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:50 pm

As you suggested, the feathers and horns are now team colours, and I enlarged the black stripes on Teutonic Lancer and Hochmeister. I also enlarged the cross on Hochmeisters cloak and tried to give him a banner attached to his saddle, please make adjustments if you wish as i do not think I did a good job of it :D
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Teutonic Lancer.png
Teutonic Lancer.png (1.74 KiB) Viewed 872 times
Teutonic Knight Mounted.png
Teutonic Knight Mounted.png (1.37 KiB) Viewed 872 times
Hochmeister.png
Hochmeister.png (1.67 KiB) Viewed 872 times

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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:13 am

no banner version
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Hochmeister no banner 2.png
Hochmeister no banner 2.png (1.71 KiB) Viewed 870 times

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Endru1241
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:23 am

I think images are great. I'd say they are ready for implementation.
Stats:
About Hochmeister - I am not opposed to him having aura. I am only against absolutes. E.g. I don't think any first line units should die in from another unit in 1 turn. Such occurrence dictates only using ambushing tactics.
It makes structures and transports too strong with little investment.
The easiest way to implement teuton lancer and still allow him to be affected by aura would be to make his bonuses weaker.
So 8 power - yes, but half the bonus. 24 base dam is still strong enough to be considered cavalry counter.
Meanwhile I just remembered of the strong point why regular cavalry shouldn't have 15power - it's the hp of halbeldier.
So Mounted Teuton should have 12-13power max, depending on Hochmeister aura bonus.
Regular Teuton could have power decreased along that.
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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Squirrel5555 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:25 pm

Ok thanks, you take it from here :D
Yeah i think Hochmeister should have an aura, so make the other units weaker if you wish. However, they already take a turn longer to produce than their regular counterparts(cavalier, lancer) so i don't think they should become weakened too far. Unless the Hochmeister could provide defensive buffs in his aura, such as extra armour? Just a few thoughts

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Chlorine
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Chlorine » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:35 am

That's cool

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Endru1241
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Re: mounted teutonic knight

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:25 pm

OK. It's implemented.

I changed the images a little bit, as I was correcting all cavalry legs.
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unit_teuton_lancer.png
unit_teuton_lancer.png (1.87 KiB) Viewed 757 times
unit_teuton_komtur.png
unit_teuton_komtur.png (1.84 KiB) Viewed 757 times
unit_teuton_knight.png
unit_teuton_knight.png (1.5 KiB) Viewed 757 times
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Squirrel5555
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Re: mounted teutonic knight IMPLEMENTED

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:30 pm

Ok thank you! Looks good :mrgreen:

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