Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

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Rotholz
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Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by Rotholz » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:19 pm

I think that the Lancer units needs to be affected by the reach upgrade. Especially the Gendarme looks like he'd have very good reach, and since they have polearms it fits in my opinion. Also, the Lancers are quite weak with their low HP and damage, so an upgrade like that would be just what they needed to be a better choice
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SirPat
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by SirPat » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:48 am

I guess you're new in Aos and the forums
We didn't added reach because of balance reasons It would be too OP in the game health is our only counter measure for this unit except for halberds.
Lancers, Heavy Lancers, and gendarmes are really powerful against cavalry and has 5 speed meaning it is highly mobile a charge of these units can break cavalry divisions in a few turns

Obviouse answer:

Reach tech gives Polearms firt strike in the means of Breaching (standing there polearms at the ground and pointing it in an angle) you cant do that with a lance nor a spear of a horseman
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Endru1241
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by Endru1241 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:00 pm

Actually all lancers have "offensive only bonus damage" ability, so they no longer deal scary high damage vs mounted on counters. Their counter is only 2-3 base damage.
Only flavor-realism dictates against giving them reach.
So I really don't know what to think about giving it to them.
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godOfKings
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by godOfKings » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:33 am

May b raise their base hp a bit instead, it looks too low for a unit with so low atk and only good bonus against cav
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Endru1241
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:28 am

Sure, along with spearman line. It is also unit with low attack and only good bonus against mounted.

But seriously - lancer is perfectly capable of fighting ranged units and weak infantry. His bonuses work only in offense to allow attacking him somehow with cavalry. I see absolutely no reason to increase his hp.
Instead I'd make his attack increased along with lowering bonus vs mounted, but it's left for after implementing new cavalry and anti-mounted units.
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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:45 pm

It reminds me of the idea I had not so Long ago that all lance cavalry should have the ability to charge in a straight Line dealing a good amount of damage but said units base attack would be very low as a lance is a one use weapon.

Then the player would need to retreat his lancers to repeat the process just like actual shock cavalry was used.
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Endru1241
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:13 pm

And that is exactly what I was trying to simulate by giving them offensive bonus only.
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godOfKings
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by godOfKings » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:23 am

I think current lancer is nerfed too much, it only deals 7 dmg, can't even kill skirmisher, and cannot even one hit kill cavalry, for 4 turn it gets one shotted by spear man, its HP should at least b comparable to horse archer,

I say give same stats as Hungarian hussar, 24 HP, 7 atk, bonus on cav 300% (deals 28 DMG) and upgrading raises same amount of stats
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Endru1241
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Re: Make all types of Lancers be affected by reach

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:26 pm

It's not cannot even one-shot cavalry.
It's almost one-shots cavalry.
Think of this - for twice the cost (time) you get spearman with +2 speed, +1 sight, almost twice of hp, +2/2 armor, +1 damage to most units, +3 damage to mounted, ranged, melee foot and siege machines. As a trade-off there's cavalry weaknesses, but overall survivability and tactical use goes up drastically.

Skirmisher with mounted version - also x2 cost - gets, x2 hp, -1 range, -2 p.armor, +2 speed, +2 sight (comparing to elite, as image suggests).
Archer gets +15hp, +2 speed
Poison Archer the same as archer, but cost is +2, not x2.
Templar with +1 cost gets +2 speed, changed bonuses (looses a ton of damage vs buildings, some vs siege, gains +5 on melee foot, throwers, gunmen ) and the same weaknesses.
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