turtle ship range

Put here any ideas, suggestions about unit or structure properties.
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TheBluePhoenix
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turtle ship range

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:56 am

I think with a range of 3, turtle ships are retty much useless. either decrease the turn cost to 3/4 or increase the range to 5/6. I would suggest the latter
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


goose88
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by goose88 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:02 am

I agree that they are useless. But I wanted to show a picture from my vacation in South Korea this summer. I found a replica full-sized turtle ship in the town where it was invented by an admiral to defend against the Japanese invasion in 1592! The town is Yeosu. The point of the ship was that the Japanese couldn't use their "grapple and board" technique because it was a continuous closed top ship.
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Disco
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by Disco » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:59 am

Nice pic Goose!

I too believe it is underpowered, or more, im not sure of its strengths.

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DoomCarrot
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by DoomCarrot » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:30 pm

Turtle ships are honestly quite godly in some situations I think, but I would be fine for +1 range. :)
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COOLguy
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by COOLguy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:46 pm

They are useless??? :lol:

You have a short memory Doom - a very short memory. :)
Thanks!
Josh

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COOLguy
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by COOLguy » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:49 pm

goose88 wrote:I agree that they are useless. But I wanted to show a picture from my vacation in South Korea this summer. I found a replica full-sized turtle ship in the town where it was invented by an admiral to defend against the Japanese invasion in 1592! The town is Yeosu. The point of the ship was that the Japanese couldn't use their "grapple and board" technique because it was a continuous closed top ship.
That is really cool!
Thanks!
Josh

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DoomCarrot
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by DoomCarrot » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:13 pm

COOLguy wrote:They are useless??? :lol:

You have a short memory Doom - a very short memory. :)

What? I said they are godly! Goose said they were useless. :lol:
The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution.

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COOLguy
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by COOLguy » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:54 am

DoomCarrot wrote:
COOLguy wrote:They are useless??? :lol:

You have a short memory Doom - a very short memory. :)

What? I said they are godly! Goose said they were useless. :lol:
oh :lol:
Goose, you are wrong :lol:
Thanks!
Josh

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:41 am

Will you increase the range?
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by COOLguy » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:11 pm

Let's see what others think. I really think that the turtle ship is almost op as it is right now.
Thanks!
Josh

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Disco
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by Disco » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:38 pm

Im not sure, as ive not really used them. When i did, they felt less effective than some of the other units. TBH even a gain of range, isnt really gonna make me want to build them...though no doubt someone will school me in the future with them, an i'll change my mind :lol:

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:37 am

COOLguy wrote:Let's see what others think. I really think that the turtle ship is almost op as it is right now.
Op really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whar the hell?
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by COOLguy » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:51 am

Phoenix: How are you trying to use your turtle ships? Are you going up to triremes and ramming them? Maybe trying to bombard inland workers? :)
Thanks!
Josh

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:46 am

Well i try to kill canons only with them but here is how i would justify myself is that

If you try to kill a canon ship with turtle, then maybe you are faster , but due to a huge difference in range, the turtle loses

If you try to kill a trireme , then its fast speed has you in splits.

Hence they are only good against warships, transports and mends. ONLY

So the ship sucks in terms of its speed + range value
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by COOLguy » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:16 pm

:) Yes, they are a unique unit. You have to know how you want to use them. They have a shorter range than cannon ships and catapult ships and warships, but are a bit faster. They outrange the trireme but are slower. :)

So yes, 1v1 the turtle ship loses to everything but noncoms and warships. ;) Here are some tips and strategies that I find incredibly useful, DoomCarrot is one person here who can attest to their usefulness (as he already has here).

-Use them in pairs: if you look at the stats, you can see that turtles can sink any ship in two shots
-Use them defensively: their slow speed makes it hard to leave your home waters or retreat if you are threatened. Turtles work best in waters you control, as defensive interceptors
-Use them as a psych weapon: turtles look intimidating, and are a sign that you have a large fleet (that you have docks for sure). Opponents of a defensive turtle pair will have to attack with a mixed fleet larger than the turtle fleet.
-Steer clear of enemy coasts: there are so many things from the shore that can destroy turtles
-But use coasts to your advantage: remember you have a range; if you can maneuver shores between you and triremes, it gives you an advantage
-Turtles speed + range gives them a total attack radius of 7: that is two more than triremes and equal to the catapult ships
-Very rarely use them for shore bombardment: mostly weak units near the shore and an occasional dock; but it is a risk every time (see above :) )
-They are cheaper than any combat ship other than a warship: So 1v1 of course they should lose to everything except for a warship :)
-I've found that the only thing turtles have an actual issue with are cannon ships: but cannon ships cost 8+6+6 (for ballistics and gunpowder); and I see it as a balancing necessity, otherwise turtles would be almost invincible
COOLguy wrote:I really think that the turtle ship is almost op as it is right now.
Against the more expensive ships, battles are more of a toss-up. It depends on individual tactics and which person knows what they are doing. :)
That said, turtles are not for everyone. You use Triremes/Quadriremes because you think they are useful and you don't use Turtle Ships because you think they are worthless. I think exactly the opposite, so we must just have different playstyles.
Thanks!
Josh

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DoomCarrot
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by DoomCarrot » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:52 pm

COOLguy nailed it. That was a very comprehensive strategy guide. :)
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Disco
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by Disco » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:11 am

Yeah agree, that is a very useful guide. thx Coolguy! I didnt realise they were that powerful (2 shot kill). My memory is shooting at other ships for turns, making little impact. But my memory sucks lol

Although i still think id rather have 2 trireme or catapult ships, I may give them another go ;)

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:33 am

COOLguy wrote::) Yes, they are a unique unit. You have to know how you want to use them. They have a shorter range than cannon ships and catapult ships and warships, but are a bit faster. They outrange the trireme but are slower. :)

So yes, 1v1 the turtle ship loses to everything but noncoms and warships. ;) Here are some tips and strategies that I find incredibly useful, DoomCarrot is one person here who can attest to their usefulness (as he already has here).

-Use them in pairs: if you look at the stats, you can see that turtles can sink any ship in two shots
-Use them defensively: their slow speed makes it hard to leave your home waters or retreat if you are threatened. Turtles work best in waters you control, as defensive interceptors
-Use them as a psych weapon: turtles look intimidating, and are a sign that you have a large fleet (that you have docks for sure). Opponents of a defensive turtle pair will have to attack with a mixed fleet larger than the turtle fleet.
-Steer clear of enemy coasts: there are so many things from the shore that can destroy turtles
-But use coasts to your advantage: remember you have a range; if you can maneuver shores between you and triremes, it gives you an advantage
-Turtles speed + range gives them a total attack radius of 7: that is two more than triremes and equal to the catapult ships
-Very rarely use them for shore bombardment: mostly weak units near the shore and an occasional dock; but it is a risk every time (see above :) )
-They are cheaper than any combat ship other than a warship: So 1v1 of course they should lose to everything except for a warship :)
-I've found that the only thing turtles have an actual issue with are cannon ships: but cannon ships cost 8+6+6 (for ballistics and gunpowder); and I see it as a balancing necessity, otherwise turtles would be almost invincible
COOLguy wrote:I really think that the turtle ship is almost op as it is right now.
Against the more expensive ships, battles are more of a toss-up. It depends on individual tactics and which person knows what they are doing. :)
That said, turtles are not for everyone. You use Triremes/Quadriremes because you think they are useful and you don't use Turtle Ships because you think they are worthless. I think exactly the opposite, so we must just have different playstyles.

I still feel they suck- reason- if they are useful in pairs, that makes their effective cost 12. Clearly useless when it comes to fighting a fleet.
Whatever points you said, they can be easily countered using a fleet of ship with 1-2 ships canon and trireme. This can destroy a lot of turtles.

I feel they are useless currently , or pretty less useful
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


Darkknight
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by Darkknight » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:20 am

I Rarely build any naval units (I'm just bad with them for some reason :cry: )... but from reading the posts I think they are fine.

Daruty
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by Daruty » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:02 pm

Turtle ships are good but not OP and i think you shouldn't increase their range

I rarely use them but they are a good defense against naval attacks if you hide them in towers and tc that are on the shore your opponents ships might come closer and you can suprise them and break the whole attack in one single volley

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Hardeep
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by Hardeep » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:03 am

if you hide them in towers
If they can go into towers or factories on Land, thats definitely a bug
If its on bridges maybe not
There never was much hope... just a fool's hope

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COOLguy
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Re: turtle ship range

Post by COOLguy » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:11 am

Hardeep wrote:
if you hide them in towers
If they can go into towers or factories on Land, thats definitely a bug
If its on bridges maybe not
they can be in towns, docks, and siege workshops
Thanks!
Josh

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