New triggers: ANY's and ALL's

[Dagravian]

Hey @Stratego (dev) (Edit v3 with corrections)

I need a new triggers to this game on map editor. I was trying to make several units cross the map to reach a specific area, but you can only make it work on the way i want with only 1 unit at time (and make +20 triggers on the map just for this is too bad) so i want to enshort that by adding new conditions if possible.

1) "Cond: ANY Objs in area reached (new area, point b, Y2 or anything else you want to call) (with the optional player filter)

2) "Cond: All Objs in area reached (new area, point b, Y2 or anything else you want to call) (with optional player filter and mandatory "area cap")

3) "Cond: ANY Objs in area destroyed" (with optional player filter + optional obj filter, with hability to target categories as unit or buildables aswell)

4) "Cond: ALL Objs in area destroyed" (with optional player filter + optional obj filter, with hability to target categories as unit or buildables aswell)

[Field marshal Mick]

What you are talking about sounds a lot like the the waypoints feature. You can select a group then mark a point on the map, and the designated units will head towards the point. I think you can use it in a TC to direct new trained units where you want. I dont use it myself. When I first started playing I gave it a try but they did not move to my satisfaction. Now if you're trying to direct AI fo do you bidding that might be a task in itself. I am going through the same thing and it looks like my best option is to simply take the time and implement the commands to each unit individuall, test it out , make adjustments and repeat until I am satisfied with the results.
I don't know for sure but I think if there was a magical bullet that could be implemented it would already be here be because it is a effort to get mindless robots to obey. Good luck to you

[Midonik]

He is talking about new triggers for map editor I believe.

[Dagravian]

He is talking about new triggers for map editor I believe.

yep, it is mentioned on the very first line

What you are talking about sounds a lot like the the waypoints feature.

Waypoints is a in-game thing, triggers is a background thing that affect the in-game stuff (like adding meaning to the campaign, as objectives or msg dialogs to the player) that are found in Map Editor feature.

[Field marshal Mick]

I am currently teaching myself how to work on this stuff and the possibilities are endless but it is a lot of work to make it happen. So I what I am trying to say is that you get what you pay for and nothing worth having is easy to get

[Dagravian]

Don't worry, one day you will get used on how it does work... Triggers work on condition+effect, so isn't that hard to work with them, and once you get used, it's kinda easy...

I know that "there is no free lunch", but i guess you forgot that isn't only the dev that takes time to work on maps, ppl take a significant amout of time making them, and any shortcut provided to decrease time spent and increase quality is very welcome...

Anyway...

Had made a slight edit on the first condition to be more specific, now it is related to ANY or ALL units inside the (x1,y1):

Any means that any unit inside the area (x1,y1) will activate the trigger when reaching area (x2,y2).

All means that all units of area (x1,y1) must be inside area (x2,y2) to activate the trigger.

[Field marshal Mick]

I was in a rare mood earlier and I apologize if l came across a little cocky. I am picking up on this stuff at a nice pace and quite pleased with myself.
On the subject of any or all on the triggers. That is the piece of information that I needed to hear about my situation. It will save me a lot of time and frustration. Thank you

[Dagravian]

No problem @Field marshal Mick, glad to help.

[Stratego (dev)]

I need a new triggers to this game on map editor. I was trying to make several units cross the map to reach a specific area, but you can only make it work on the way i want with only 1 unit at time (and make +20 triggers on the map just for this is too bad) so i want to enshort that by adding new conditions if possible.

For units in area to another area:

Cond: ANY units in area (x1,y1) of player (number x) reach area (x2,y2)
Cond: ALL units in area (x1,y1) of player (number x) reach area (x2,y2)

----------

For larger area where there is many units of different players together.

Cond: Any unit of player (nbr x) (all its units in map) reach area (x1,y1)

----------

For a specific player defeated.

Cond: all units of player (nbr x) in area (x1,y1) destroyed.
Cond: all units of player (nbr x) destroyed.

shall i make
a) a set waypoint effect for all units in area (can be filtered by player and unit type optionally) is this enough?
b) a effect that can kill units in are (with same filters optionally) ?

[Dagravian]

shall i make
a) a set waypoint effect for all units in area (can be filtered by player and unit type optionally) is this enough?
b) a effect that can kill units in are (with same filters optionally) ?

Firstly, i'm looking for conditions, not effects, but i guess you had refered triggers as effects, am i right?

Well... It is not filtered by unit since the intention is to trigger for target all units inside the area of selection (area 1), being only filtered by player.

A)Kind of, these triggers will consist of the (area 1) that is the area that will target the units, the (area 2) that is the area that the targeted units must reach in order to activate it and player filter. You can separate area 1 into x1 and y1, while area 2, by x2 and y2... 'X' being top left tile and "Y" being the botton right tile.

I would like those triggers to be separated in 2, one trigger related to ALL and one for the ANY, because the reference point is not the area that units will be selected, but the area that these selected units must reach. As i mentioned here...

Any means that any unit inside the area (x1,y1) will activate the trigger when reaching area (x2,y2).

All means that all units of area (x1,y1) must be inside area (x2,y2) to activate the trigger.

The idea is to cover both situatuations, for ALL, lets say that you want to make a map with evacuation/extraction theme, so all your targeted units must be inside the "waypoint area" in order to trigger the effects...

For ANY, it is more simple, the first one of any of the targeted units that reach the waypoint area, will activate the effects... That can work with any map, as siege, ambushes, pushes or whatever...

B)No, it isn't intended to kill no unit, but to activate a trigger when one player get all his units or buildings (forgot to mention buildings when editing the text the first time, my bad...) destroyed inside that area.
The first condition target all units inside the area, filtered by player
The second should target all buildings instead, being filtered by player aswell.

[Dagravian]

Edited the first post with corrections, deleted third (a) request bcz i think the first one can cover it if made folowing the conditions... I guess now it is more clear what it should look like, also added (c) request conditions for high priority units like excorted units (civilians, suply trucks, bombers...) or tatical points (command centers, towns, production buildings...).

[Field marshal Mick]

I am also in need of the any/all option as described. In the condition that"objects in area" would also be useful. I have been using the "object" condition 30+ times. It seems that the "objects" condition wants all of the selected units in the area where I only need 1 of the selected to set off the trigger

[Stratego (dev)]

Firstly, i'm looking for conditions, not effects, but i guess you had refered triggers as effects, am i right?

yes, in triggering there are
a) conditions: determines if effects can fire
b) effects: effects to be fired (these are not the not ability / spell effect)

read the triggeting help for more.

Well... It is not filtered by unit since the intention is to trigger for target all units inside the area of selection (area 1), being only filtered by player.

i ment as an "option", an optional filter can be unset meaning all units.

----------------------------
here is what u mean with triggering terms, so i understand this:

CLEAR:
Effect: ALL units in Area x/y (mandatory) of PlayerNr (optional) set waypoint to Area x/y2 (mandatory, and must be a 1x1 location)


NEEDS MORE DiSCuSSION:
Cond: ANY units in area (x1,y1) of player (number x) reach area (x2,y2) - how can u mean ANY? in case there are 5 swordsmen which should get the Waypoint? - i can not imagine here the "ANY" term.

Cond: all units of player (nbr x) in area (x1,y1) are destroyed.: u mean: Cond: Area x/y (mandatory) contains no units of PlayerNr (optional) and Obj. type (optional)
-> we have this option already: called Cond: Objs in area"" see in mapdesign help.

Cond: all buildings of player (nbr x) in area (x1,y1) are destroyed. -> this is the same as before "Cond: Objs in area" but you van sset new obj types that are like groups: "Buildings", "Units" in unit type list -> question: how to define "building?"


C)To tag important units as priority to attack/defend:
Cond: Any building of player (nbr x) that is in area (x1,y1) gets destroyed.
Cond: Any unit of player (nbr x) that is in area (x1,y1) gets destroyed.
we have no "active command" currently (like attack an enemy, or a location, or partol from here and there), there is a separate thread for it on forum, please find and link here.


also please read tru the mapdesigner help that Coolguy wrote so we will use the same terms to avoid misunderstandings

[Dagravian]

also please read tru the mapdesigner help that Coolguy wrote so we will use the same terms to avoid misunderstandings

Ok, just read those and i think i can use the same terms now.

First of all, i think using the term "waypoint" is actually not exactly what i mean, maybe due a lack of another term on language... But what i'm looking is not exactly a waypoint of 1x1, but actually any larger area as 2x2, 4x4 or bigger, being 1x1, the term "ANY" really not makes sense, because on 1x1 waypoint, both "ANY" and "ALL" would be the same logic, they should be actually 2 faces of the same coin, so let me adjust this for what i'm proposing:

CLEAR:
Cond: ALL units in Area x/y (mandatory) of PlayerNr (optional) set waypoint to Area x/y2 (mandatory, and must be bigger than a 1x1 location)

Cond: ANY units in Area x/y (mandatory) of PlayerNr (optional, but in this case, being mandatory is better) set waypoint to Area x/y2 (mandatory, and must be bigger than a 1x1 location)

Ok knowing that waypoint area is bigger than 1x1, now the "ANY" term makes sense, as the targeted units can (on "ANY" version of the trigger) or cannot (on "ALL" version of the trigger) instantly activate the logic when entering on the targeted area.

On "ANY", from anybody under the triggers watch, the first to reach anywhere inside the targeted area will activate it.
(Eg, you have 5 swordman, if any of the 5 that reach the desired area will activate the effect)

On "ALL", everyone under triggers watch, must be inside the targeted area to activate it.
(Eg, you have 5 swordman, all the 5 must be inside the desired area to activate it.)

In short terms, a single tile must be filled on "ANY" targeted unit to activate it, while on "ALL", every tile must be filled with a targeted unit to activate it. Thats why they need to be bigger than 1x1 in order to work how i want.

But for "ALL", i just realized that could work better to put the number of units inside the desired area aswell.

EG, you had selected 7 units, on a 3x3 area, and need to move them to another 3x3 area, in this case the second area could fit 9 units, so ensure that the logic understand that you have only 7 units is essential.

Cond: ALL units in Area x/y (mandatory) of PlayerNr (optional) set waypoint to Area x/y2 (mandatory, and must be bigger than a 1x1 location) + Area cap (mandatory, having 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 sizes of total area capacity to activate it)

I hope these 2 are more clear now... Next:

---/---/---/---

B) and C) subjects

-> we have this option already: called Cond: Objs in area"" see in mapdesign help.

No that one don't relate to it bcz of the "destroyed" term, the closest is "Cond: Obj destroyed". And it can only target one object at time. The idea is to increase the range of this trigger to cover more units at same time.

I think we can reduce the b) subject to "Cond: ALL Objs in area destroyed" if you make the group definitions of buildings and units.
The definition of building would cover all buildable structures including some on naval section (eg factories, bunkers, sea mines...) while units are all the rest.

The C) subject is the same of B) but using the same "Any/All" logic of the A), so it would be "Cond: ANY objs in area destroyed".

So for short terms, while the "Cond: ALL Objs in area destroyed" would be activated when all targeted objects are destroyed, the "Cond: ANY objs in area destroyed" will be activate if any of targeted objects is destroyed.

With that, i think things are far way more simple to understand, also helped to reduced 6 to 4 new triggers now. (I will edit the first post later on with the changes...)

[Stratego (dev)]

waypoint: can only be 1x1 (this is the waypoint button in game with that button, there is no area option, i can not imageine how could be area)

more answers later - long post

Ok knowing that waypoint area is bigger than 1x1, now the "ANY" term makes sense, as the targeted units can (on "ANY" version of the trigger) or cannot (on "ALL" version of the trigger) instantly activate the logic when entering on the targeted area.

sorry i am totally lost here ("any version of triggger"), tell me what u would like to trigger with a specific example, because in this form i can not understand.

On "ANY", from anybody under the triggers watch, the first to reach anywhere inside the targeted area will activate it.
(Eg, you have 5 swordman, if any of the 5 that reach the desired area will activate the effect)

actually you can do it with setting a "condition" that a given unit reaches area - so it is in already for one unit.
you want to make several such triggers with same condition for all unit in one step? so in case of 5 units, you want to be geneerated 5 of this trigger with this condition?

On "ALL", everyone under triggers watch, must be inside the targeted area to activate it.
(Eg, you have 5 swordman, all the 5 must be inside the desired area to activate it.)

same here: you want to make multiple conditions in one step? so if 5 units there generate 5 conditions (they will be in AND connections) in the given trigger?

Thats why they need to be bigger than 1x1 in order to work how i want

are u referring to waypoint? that is a different thing, that is an effect, we talk here about conditions.


SUMMARIZE:
1. you need an effect for setting a waypoint to one or more units (waypoint location is 1x1 tile)
2. you suggest either
a) an automation to generate multiple conditions at one step (so not only 1 objxy can be set, but more objxy in one step - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way.
b) or a new logic where in ONE condition you can set not only 1 unit (by objxy) but multiple units - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way.

are we in same thinking? (i am afraid still not )

Next:

---/---/---/---

B) and C) subjects

sorry we can not discuss it effectively this all-in-one thread way - put this new part into new thread (as i think it is a separate idea) - thanks!

[Dagravian]

waypoint: can only be 1x1 (this is the waypoint button in game with that button, there is no area option, i can not imageine how could be area)

Yep, it is clear now, your reference of "waypoint" term is the in-game logic of tile, i'm actually using the literal meaning of it as "point to go or place to be headed", in these terms, i'm sure now that waypoint isn't the correct term for it, so i will not use it from now on...

sorry i am totally lost here ("any version of triggger"), tell me what u would like to trigger with a specific example, because in this form i can not understand.

Ok, waypoint thing was not the best term to use here. So forget it from now on, let we start all over. Starting from the point of "what are i'm looking for?"

As i mentioned before, firstly is to select a group of units from the area A and trigger something when they reach to area B, so when they reach area B, something should happen, that can be any of the current effects, but the real focus is on ALL and ANY conditions (that is clearly a new logic), so the next question is "what are those for?"

First i will explain what is what. "All" should refer to everyone while "Any" to anyone, these 2 terms could be apply to any future trigger that works based in area (bigger than 1x1) since game logic would not make difference if the condition is targeted to a single tile.

With these, you can actually cover almost all possibilities possible of attacking, defense, escort, set improved puzzles or whatever map creators have in mind.

(Then read again my big text on last posts here again about how u can use them... But you probably might had get the point here)

The next question is "how they would work?"

This "point A/point B" situation , as it is a large area situation, can be divided into these 2 conditions, one is for Any, the other is for All, same for the ones that use "destroyed" term, so in the game logic view, the questions that it must do to itself are:

1) Any - Did ANYone of desired objects of playerNr had reached the area b?

2) All - Did everyone of desired objects of playerNr had reached the area b?

3) Any - Did ANYone of desired objects of PlayerNr had been destroyed?

4) All - Did every desired objects of PlayerNr had been destroyed?

That being translated respectivelly as:

1) "Cond: ANY Objs in area reached (new area, point b, Y2 or anything else you want to call) (with the optional player filter)

2) "Cond: All Objs in area reached (new area, point b, Y2 or anything else you want to call) (with optional player filter and mandatory "area cap")

3) "Cond: ANY Objs in area destroyed" (with optional player filter + optional obj filter, with hability to target categories as unit or buildables aswell)

4) "Cond: ALL Objs in area destroyed" (with optional player filter + optional obj filter, with hability to target categories as unit or buildables aswell)

So i explained what, why and how it should work, i guess now you get the base of what i'm thinking...

b) or a new logic where in ONE condition you can set not only 1 unit (by objxy) but multiple units - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way.

Yep, this is what i want. But as you noticed, it is 4 triggers like this to fill the all's and any's conditions i listed above.

actually you can do it with setting a "condition" that a given unit reaches area - so it is in already for one unit.
you want to make several such triggers with same condition for all unit in one step? so in case of 5 units, you want to be geneerated 5 of this trigger with this condition?

same here: you want to make multiple conditions in one step? so if 5 units there generate 5 conditions (they will be in AND connections) in the given trigger?

Well, 5 infantry was just a basic example, one of the maps that i'm making, i would have to do that process over 60 times just for the units controled by the person... Not counting other triggers for the map, so for a newer player to editor, that is not nice to work with so many triggers at time (as for myself, i think work with maps with more than 20 overall triggers is already a bit abusive ), so reduce that is what i want. Like, if i could reduce those 60 triggers to just 1 or 2... Would be very happy. And probably not only myself... So then we can have richer maps with less efforth. Therefore, nice maps more often.

[Stratego (dev)]

this was my summary, i think it fits what u need:

SUMMARIZE:
1. you need an effect for setting a waypoint to one or more units (waypoint location is 1x1 tile)
2. you suggest either
a) an automation to generate multiple conditions at one step (so not only 1 objxy can be set, but more objxy in one step - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way.
b) or a new logic where in ONE condition you can set not only 1 unit (by objxy) but multiple units - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way, and also can set if the selected unit are in AND or in OR connectin within the single condition item.

[godOfKings]

wat i understand is that the map maker in a condition decides 2 things

1. he specifies an area on which all the units r considered
2. he specifies the second area where the units in first area must reach

wen units in first area reach second area, the condition will b triggered (and any effect in trigger will b activated)

any: any one of the units in first area must reach second area to activate trigger
all: all the units in first area must reach second area to activate trigger

difference between objs in area and this trigger i think is objs in area can only select which units, how many units, etc. can reach a given area. doomsday's suggestion is to make it easier by simply specifying all units in first area must reach second area to activate trigger

I need a new triggers to this game on map editor. I was trying to make several units cross the map to reach a specific area, but you can only make it work on the way i want with only 1 unit at time (and make +20 triggers on the map just for this is too bad)

he is not suggesting any effect with waypoint for units in area to follow it to next area, the player must send his units to second area to progress in story or activate trigger

[Dagravian]

this was my summary, i think it fits what u need:

SUMMARIZE:
1. you need an effect for setting a waypoint to one or more units (waypoint location is 1x1 tile)
2. you suggest either
a) an automation to generate multiple conditions at one step (so not only 1 objxy can be set, but more objxy in one step - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way.
b) or a new logic where in ONE condition you can set not only 1 unit (by objxy) but multiple units - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way, and also can set if the selected unit are in AND or in OR connectin within the single condition item.

It is a new logic indeed, but isn't exactly a waypoint. Idk what is the term, but isn't a 1x1 waypoint... It is for anything bigger than 1x1... This time, i will use images to explain what i want.

Ok this is the move situation...

2019-02-26-10-31-26.png (104.54 KiB) Viewed 5513 times

In this, i want to move all units from sand tiles to the ones on the snow ones, sand tiles is the area of objxy, snow area is the waypoint areaxy, ok, now the conditions are:

if anyone had entered the area.

2019-02-26-10-51-15.png (154.95 KiB) Viewed 5513 times

or if everyone had entered the area.

2019-02-26-10-31-56.png (106.37 KiB) Viewed 5513 times

With this, you can create many checkpoints for multiple units at once.

Is this clear?

This is for the destruction situation:

2019-02-26-10-51-29.png (163.24 KiB) Viewed 5513 times

The marked area is in snow, the trigger will activate on 2 conditions.

If ANYone inside the marked area is destroyed.

Or if everyone inside the marked area is destroyed.

Now i will show one example of new possibilities using both Any and all triggers.

In this mission, your task is to escort the trucks to any of the safe zones

2019-02-26-10-51-51.png (161.6 KiB) Viewed 5513 times

So in total, using any's and all's, it would need just 4 triggers to make it.

First you need to tag trucks as the important, so with "Cond: ANY Objs in area destroyed" you can put the victory effect to red team... Meaning that if you lose any of the trucks, you lose the mission. So instead of using "Cond: Obj destroyed" to all 3 trucks, meaning 3 triggers, we just used 1 to tag them all at once.

Now to objective, since i put the first trigger to ensure defeat if any truck is destroyed, all the trucks must move to "safezones", so, i want to create 3 options to player choose where to go, one to north, center and south also i put some enemies in the path to be more challenging, Now i use "Cond: All Objs in area reached new area 3 times, one for each path, to say that all marked units did had reached safety inside the desired areas, giving the winning effect to the player and also, a different msg depending on what path the user took (you could use that to give a tip for the next mission). So in total, 4 triggers used to make this example mission.

wat i understand is that the map maker in a condition decides 2 things

1. he specifies an area on which all the units r considered
2. he specifies the second area where the units in first area must reach

wen units in first area reach second area, the condition will b triggered (and any effect in trigger will b activated)

any: any one of the units in first area must reach second area to activate trigger
all: all the units in first area must reach second area to activate trigger

difference between objs in area and this trigger i think is objs in area can only select which units, how many units, etc. can reach a given area. doomsday's suggestion is to make it easier by simply specifying all units in first area must reach second area to activate trigger

I need a new triggers to this game on map editor. I was trying to make several units cross the map to reach a specific area, but you can only make it work on the way i want with only 1 unit at time (and make +20 triggers on the map just for this is too bad)

he is not suggesting any effect with waypoint for units in area to follow it to next area, the player must send his units to second area to progress in story or activate trigger

YES, Exactly this, you got it perfectly!

[Stratego (dev)]

very good in explaining, while i am processing the post, please change the attached images to link to this site (where u can upload the images and link the images here): https://imgbb.com/

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i read tru and i got you dont need waypoint effect

so to SUMMARIZE:
you suggest a new logic where in ONE condition you can set not only 1 unit (by objxy) but multiple units - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way, and also can set if the selected units are in AND or in OR connectin within the single condition item(resulting in ALL/ANY meaning).

by this you will not need to make 5 conditions in case of 5 units to eg. arrive to a certain area (ALL case), but you only need one condition.
also
by this you will not need to make 5 trigger + conditions in case of any of 5 units to eg. arrive to a certain area (ANY case), but you only need one trigger with one condition.

am i right?

[Dagravian]

ok i read tru and i got you dont need waypoint effect

so to SUMMARIZE:
you suggest a new logic where in ONE condition you can set not only 1 unit (by objxy) but multiple units - maybe via the "areaxy" or some other way, and also can set if the selected units are in AND or in OR connectin within the single condition item(resulting in ALL/ANY meaning).

by this you will not need to make 5 conditions in case of 5 units to eg. arrive to a certain area (ALL case), but you only need one condition.
also
by this you will not need to make 5 trigger + conditions in case of any of 5 units to eg. arrive to a certain area (ANY case), but you only need one trigger with one condition.

am i right?

Yes, perfect.

very good in explaining, while i am processing the post, please change the attached images to link to this site (where u can upload the images and link the images here): https://imgbb.com/

Ok. Will do.

[godOfKings]

Doomsday I will just give u a simple advice,
The art of writing formal letters is being simple, specific and to the point, not describing the same situation in hundreds of different ways hoping the reader will get at least one way

[Dagravian]

Any progress on this @Stratego (dev) ?
It is all what is missing to me before i can send you some campaign maps.