Veteran Limit

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Midonik
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Midonik » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:47 pm

Making it optionally, including complete remove of chance, would give more optionsl, and also same for the miss chance (I would for example want to keep miss chance of unit even if it has bonus in AoG).
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Alexander82
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:54 pm

I'll open a specific topic for dodge
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:56 am

Alexander82 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:13 pm
At the moment dodge isn't effective against units that have a bonus against you.

My suggestion is that when a unit has a bonus against you the effect of dodge is reduced but not necessarily removed

Ideally the reduction might scale with the entity of the bonus (e.g. Any 100% bonus bypass a 10% dodge so a 50% bonus bypass 5% dodge and a 200% bonus a 20% dodge) but in case it is too complex to code we might stick for a fixed value (20/30% i guess)

The final word on coding is from Stratego (dev) tough
i would suggest simplicity for users in terms of calculating/guessing the outcome of a fight (not only at this topic, in general: i suggest simplicity for users :) )
i think the simplest suggestion (for users) from this topic is the +0.1(floating point value) instead of +1 (integer).
altough a code related modification

i would vote for this.

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Alexander82
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:18 am

Do you mean to keep armor bonus?
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:16 am

i just mean to be able to give smaller values than 1.
i did not propose any change on which stat to change - i think the whole veteraning could stay as it is now - i never faced overbuffed unit. (however i have met some of these units), but if u think than ok, lets change.

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Tankhead
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Tankhead » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:33 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:16 am
i just mean to be able to give smaller values than 1.
i did not propose any change on which stat to change - i think the whole veteraning could stay as it is now - i never faced overbuffed unit. (however i have met some of tese units), but if u think than ok, lets change.
Im mainly mentioned this is because Im seeing veteran mentioned more often in unit suggestions.
If a certain amount of veteran like units get in, this would eventually become a bigger problem.
Also by having a limit or smaller increase it can be more commonly used
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:44 am

than i suggest changing it when they are about to get in (i dont think many units should get such feature, seems unique here - was an mtg idea as i remember)

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makazuwr32
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:45 am

Alexander82 wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:53 pm
Since armor is equip related and veteraning is about experience, what about giving a 1% to all dodges instead?

So +1 attack, +maxhp (even 5) and 1% to every dodge? (so they can still be hit by unit with the bonus against them)
I would prefer this variant.
Specifically for not so genious persons
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Tankhead
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Tankhead » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:40 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:44 am
than i suggest changing it when they are about to get in (i dont think many units should get such feature, seems unique here - was an mtg idea as i remember)
Well Ill keep in mind, but would you also think about Alex proposal if possible too?
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Alexander82
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:53 pm

I proposed both version but this time I stand with Maka and Tank

It makes more sense to me.

Anyway we might even have different kind of veteraning, based on the unit role.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:14 pm

Actually i am thinking now about 3 veteraning variants:
Attack + hp as most common
Attack + dodge (and maybe a bit of hp) — for most amount of armored units
Attack + hp + armor (but +0.2-0.4 at most to armors per kill) for too big veteraning units like devourer dragon of scaledfolks (hit strengthens its skin with experience).
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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Alexander82
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:17 pm

The idea is not bad but we might always think the practical applications.

If we don't give extra hp with the dodge bonus we should definitely give more than 1% to make those units a viable choice.

The problem is that increasing dodge too much might give the same kind of problems of increasing armor too much.

I think that hp should still stay in the equations (even in a smaller degree) because they are the stat that can be increased of a noticeable value without being too op in the long run.

Too much armor makes you impervious to anything that is not a direct damage spell

Too much dodge makes a very similar final effect.

More hp just requires a few more hits to kill you (and a few more hp can help you survive between two healing effects or against small unitsl.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:15 am

I know.

That is why i want armor+ veteraning for only few units who are not so quick initially like giants or dragons (like for example devourer dragon of scaledfolks). But also it will require more kills for them to actually get +1 to armors. I think +0.15 to armors per kill is fine amount (so per 20 kills you will get only +3 armors).

As attack + dodges - ofc with +hp it comes but not big. For example for dwarven monks +5 hp per kill is too much — 4 kills and they have doubled base hp (40 in place of 20). +1-2 hp sounds more reasonable. (Also i want to decrease their base dodge melee and dodge ranged to 30%)

And for bonus hp in general from veteraning: i think they must get maximum +10% to their base hp (not to current!) If they get some bonus armor or bonus dodges and +15% if they don't.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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Alexander82
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Re: Veteran Limit

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:38 pm

I think that with these maximum increases we would loose the whole sense of veteraning.

Then I think it might be ok to leave veteraning for zurgo only since it is themed on its mtg card. This way wi will avoid loosing control of it. (zurgo is pretty rasy to kill anyway)
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