Mutant Variants

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Alexander82
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:07 pm

My suggestions:

1) change mutation concept

A mutation is something that happen to a living creatures. I think we might simply call it differently

2) bleeding and poison

Both effects would just be too similar and also currently we have poisonus bite for the basic ghoul.

I suggest you to find something different than just another source of dot or we might simply devide to make poison work differently from what currently is.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:34 pm

actually i think think that best variant with poisons is to make different "poison" effects.
They will have similar appearance (dot), non stackable with itself but stackable with other poisons.

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Savra
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Savra » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:22 am

Since undead lack a poison archer, why not make one variant a poison or bile spitter?

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Alexander82
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:18 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:34 pm
actually i think think that best variant with poisons is to make different "poison" effects.
They will have similar appearance (dot), non stackable with itself but stackable with other poisons.
I prefer, if we go for different poisons, to have totally different effects and not just dot.

I have an idea in mind but I prefer asking Daniel if it is possible to make it or not before proposing it.

If it will work it will make poison much stronger.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm

I want various variants, not only different dots.

Possible additional debuffs (weakening attack, lowering speed or armor as variants (but only one effect in addition to dot));

Bleeding (exclusive) - dot + lowers healing effects; can't be removed via "healing" effects. Affects only non-undead, non-demon, non-mechanical, non-elemental (new type for future);

Corrosion (anti-undead mainly, also anti-armor; i want this one to become replacement of fire as main undead weakness, also stackable (weakest alas dot) );

Acid (stackable, hould affect only mechanical units/buildings and additional damage to buildings);

Poison (current one) - should affect same types as bleeding, pure dot, non-stackable;

Venom - more potent poison, affects all units, deals more damage, maybe -1 additional speed, non-stackable;

Hydra's venom - most potent poison, deals %based damage + normal damage but can't affect undeads (and ofc mechanicals);

Snake Toxin (unique to scalefolks special poison that will deal damage over time and lower attack, non-stackable);

Aging - special to undeads castable "poison" (no on-hit variants!) that lowers max hp of unit for duration of effect. Also maybe different variants for living beings and not so ones (undeads, mechanicals, elementals and other energetical creatures, maybe buildings). Possible alternate names - "Rotting", "Withering" for anti-living and "Disintegration" for anti-non-alive.

Currently my ideas for "poisons".

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Alexander82
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:42 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
I want various variants, not only different dots.
Possible additional debuffs (weakening attack, lowering speed or armor as variants (but only one effect in addition to dot));
I prefer not giving both dot and debuff. that would make poison much better than any spell
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Bleeding (exclusive) - dot + lowers healing effects; can't be removed via "healing" effects. Affects only non-undead, non-demon, non-mechanical, non-elemental (new type for future);
I think that bleeding should actually be healed by healing effects (if something can heal your wounds should stop healing as well). Maybe giving a cascade effects could work (increasing dot over time) or an endless duration but only 1 damage (it never expires if not healed).
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Corrosion (anti-undead mainly, also anti-armor; i want this one to become replacement of fire as main undead weakness, also stackable (weakest alas dot) );
I prefer to keep fire as it seems more fit for them than a generic corrosion (that would probably work more on a living creature than raw bones).
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Acid (stackable, hould affect only mechanical units/buildings and additional damage to buildings);
I consider acid and corrosion to be the same thing
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Poison (current one) - should affect same types as bleeding, pure dot, non-stackable;
I am thinking about a different thing for it but at the moment it will stay as it is
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Hydra's venom - most potent poison, deals %based damage + normal damage but can't affect undeads (and ofc mechanicals);
Why hydra poison should be more powerful? Also I don't want a more powerful poison stackable with the normal one that also inflict dot and especially never a % based poison
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Snake Toxin (unique to scalefolks special poison that will deal damage over time and lower attack, non-stackable);
I think it is just another poison. I would just give all snakeman default poison attack
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Aging - special to undeads castable "poison" (no on-hit variants!) that lowers max hp of unit for duration of effect. Also maybe different variants for living beings and not so ones (undeads, mechanicals, elementals and other energetical creatures, maybe buildings). Possible alternate names - "Rotting", "Withering" for anti-living and "Disintegration" for anti-non-alive.
Maybe the other names are better. I think it is something we might discuss. I would jut make it in form of spell (non stackable)
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makazuwr32
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:33 am

Alexander82 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:42 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
I want various variants, not only different dots.
Possible additional debuffs (weakening attack, lowering speed or armor as variants (but only one effect in addition to dot));
I prefer not giving both dot and debuff. that would make poison much better than any spell
Depending on:
I want those dot + debuff to be weaker than poison and its debuffs to be also not so powerful (in case of attack for example just -1 attack and maybe 2-3 damage/turn).
Alexander82 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:42 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Bleeding (exclusive) - dot + lowers healing effects; can't be removed via "healing" effects. Affects only non-undead, non-demon, non-mechanical, non-elemental (new type for future);
I think that bleeding should actually be healed by healing effects (if something can heal your wounds should stop healing as well). Maybe giving a cascade effects could work (increasing dot over time) or an endless duration but only 1 damage (it never expires if not healed).
Hm i like this idea. Stackable or not?
Alexander82 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:42 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Corrosion (anti-undead mainly, also anti-armor; i want this one to become replacement of fire as main undead weakness, also stackable (weakest alas dot) );
I prefer to keep fire as it seems more fit for them than a generic corrosion (that would probably work more on a living creature than raw bones).
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Acid (stackable, hould affect only mechanical units/buildings and additional damage to buildings);
I consider acid and corrosion to be the same thing
And i don't. Corrosion and acid should have different formulas and thus they should affect different targets.

Also i definately want a special anti-building acid and anti-armor corrosion.
Alexander82 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:42 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Poison (current one) - should affect same types as bleeding, pure dot, non-stackable;
I am thinking about a different thing for it but at the moment it will stay as it is
Only actual change that i want for now to current poison is to make it not affecting undeads.
Alexander82 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:42 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Hydra's venom - most potent poison, deals %based damage + normal damage but can't affect undeads (and ofc mechanicals);
Why hydra poison should be more powerful? Also I don't want a more powerful poison stackable with the normal one that also inflict dot and especially never a % based poison
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Snake Toxin (unique to scalefolks special poison that will deal damage over time and lower attack, non-stackable);
I think it is just another poison. I would just give all snakeman default poison attack
Why not?
About hydra's venom: it is huge creature that lived for centuries. Ofc it should be able to produce much more potent poison than regular one. Fine about no % for it though (alas i was thinking about 3-5% +3-5 damage for it).

About snakeman toxin: i want for them something different from average poison. And also i want it to be activable (similar to enchant weapons) and it must be researched firstly.
Maybe snakeman toxin should apply though only attack weakening (like -2-4 attack).

Another idea for normal "Venom": deals 5-6 damage/turn + lowers healing effects by -50%.
And another idea for "Hydra's venom": deals same damage as "Venom", but fully disables healing.

Both effects can be only disenchanted (later only cleanese).
Alexander82 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:42 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:50 pm
Aging - special to undeads castable "poison" (no on-hit variants!) that lowers max hp of unit for duration of effect. Also maybe different variants for living beings and not so ones (undeads, mechanicals, elementals and other energetical creatures, maybe buildings). Possible alternate names - "Rotting", "Withering" for anti-living and "Disintegration" for anti-non-alive.
Maybe the other names are better. I think it is something we might discuss. I would jut make it in form of spell (non stackable)
I want it too in form of spell. Maybe even in form of 2 spells - for living ones and for mechanicals/buildings.

As for basic name i've used - it is based on ability of ghost dragons in heroes 3 where it can apply on hit with 20% chance this effect that lowers max hp by -50% (ofc in our case i think effect should be not so powerful).

I'd say for this exact effect that affects non-mechanical units maybe -20% or -30% max hp should be.
For buildings and mechanicals (and ofc such units like elementals and other energy based creatures) we can make more potent variant: maybe -40% or -50%.

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