Mutant Variants

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MikeyHud
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Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:30 am

An 'upgrade' for mutants.

While viewing some forum posts, I found this - viewtopic.php?f=26&t=43
And it got me thinking that a potential variant of certain units could be added into the game to give more variety.
It also made me think of the undead immediately. Being my favorite race, there's obviously a bit of bias here.

I was thinking over the different colors of the Mutants in these files, specifically these ones
77f6546a32c4e6e95a34721670f7b28d.png
77f6546a32c4e6e95a34721670f7b28d.png (2.21 KiB) Viewed 4152 times
Each color could be a single unlockable in the gem shop, as in, you purchase the upgrade, and you receive all of the variants for use in research, or you could have each color individually listed as a good way to burn some gems.
Each color would also have its own strengths and weaknesses, think of it more of a situational upgrade. One color is better in certain situations, while another is better in another.
I have two ideas for how the upgrading works
  • 1. Upon researching one of the upgrades, the other upgrades which would change the mutant's color and specialization would be locked permanently. This would more than likely render the upgrade less than useful, as the player you are against would quickly adapt to the change. However, this would also be a good counter to some of the main known strategies (such as cavalry rushing)
    2. Once you upgrade to a certain color (In this case, we'll assume you upgraded to red), you are still able to upgrade it to another color, but you would lose the benefits of the previous upgrade, and the red upgrade would be locked. This would effectively give you more variety with the mutants, and could benefit in both short, and long term. This would also be considered a bit over powered, since you could just use the upgrade to give yourself an advantage over an assaulting force.
The different colors would each have their own, unique benefits. All would be *slightly* better than the original, or in some cases, depending on the situation, not as useful.
  • Green - Standard mutant.
    Purple - Lifestealing mutant. Similar to how the vampire works (If the vampire was weaker, slower, and could be killed pretty quickly). Pretty self explanatory of how this one would work. Could maybe gain some hp to give it more presence on the battlefield?
    Orange - Spell caster mutant. Loses a lot of its mobility, hp, and damage, but instead gains the ability cast Hell of Pain by Sacrifice, and Pain and Hit. (Would have recommended animate dead, but the units that use that spell are core parts of most undead armies, and giving a lower cost alternative is a BAD idea.
    Black - Juggernaut mutant. Would lose a majority of its damage, but instead serve as a moving wall (That would just kinda be torn down pretty quickly by mounted units lmao). Higher hp, and a tad bit more armor (Potentially less speed as well?) Could be useful in holding off assaults while you organize your forces.
    Red - A damage focused mutant. Would lose it's pierce armor of 4, and instead be a glass cannon of sorts. With lower hp, but higher damage.
    Blue - Seafaring mutant. Would essentially be the undead equivalent of the murlock. With lower hp than the standard mutant, it gains a small damage boost against ships (If this is possible to add).

Keep in mind, this is a unit that only takes 3 turns to produce, so it would be more than reasonable for these upgrades to take a long time to actually research. Plus, if any stat boosts were in order depending on the variant, they should not be too different from the original. This should prevent spam, but i'm not really a professional on that, so i'll leave that up for you guys to decide on.
This is also my first recommendation, i'm more than open to some creative criticism. If you do not like the idea, please, let me know.

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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:21 am

Well this is very nice for your first recommendation, and i think we can work sth out from this
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MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:29 am

LordOfAles wrote:Well this is very nice for your first recommendation, and i think we can work sth out from this
Thanks! I'm open to any ideas for this, if you have any, lemme know :)

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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:14 am

Since we pretty much lack campaigns, i would suggest that this is a one tech that allows the research of different colours, not buying every colour individually, priced with 5 or 6 gems
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MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:34 am

LordOfAles wrote:Since we pretty much lack campaigns, i would suggest that this is a one tech that allows the research of different colours, not buying every colour individually, priced with 5 or 6 gems
That was one of the ideas listed. Although reading through it again, I really did screw up the wording there, my bad!
I do think it would be better for them to be all together in the upgrade shop though, the individually listed one would probably flood an entire column.
Also, by lacking campaigns, you mean storyline campaigns? If yes, i've actually been working on one, and have been trying to get it JUST RIGHT to put up on here for consideration.

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Typhoon
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Typhoon » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:30 am

Maybe whole new building to recruit them
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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:35 am

I disagree, that would mean a whole new concept for them. The purpose of this topic is to introduce "Useful Ghouls" to the game. It is like an improvement to them, not new units
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Typhoon
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Typhoon » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:41 am

Okay then
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MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:49 am

Typhoon wrote:Maybe whole new building to recruit them
My original intention was to have it act as a sort of upgrade to the mutants, like how you upgrade warriors or orcs, except in this case it wouldn't give them better stats, just a more situational use. I'm open to the idea of trying to design a building that they could be made in, but I would think it'd be slightly op if you could have an army of EVERY color and ability.

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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:51 am

Why not graveyard? It is an upgrade of Ghoul, right?
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MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:54 am

LordOfAles wrote:Why not graveyard? It is an upgrade of Ghoul, right?
Yeah.
Graveyard/TC is the original plan, with Graveyard being the thing that lets you start the upgrade.

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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:38 pm

But are we going to be able to change colour any time?
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:04 pm

LordOfAles wrote:But are we going to be able to change colour any time?
No, the idea i had is that if you change the color once, it would do one of the following thing.
  • 1. The upgrade would go through, but you CAN'T change colors again
    2. The upgrade would go through, and you can still change it to other colors. But once you change it to another color, you lose the one you were just at.
For 2. let me give an example. You upgrade your mutants to the red version, but then you change your mind and want orange instead. Once you finish a color upgrade ONCE, you cannot change to that color again for the rest of the map. Thats the idea i was having about this.

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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:23 pm

Interesting, and pretty situational!
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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:26 pm

My idea is:

Cost 4 for changing colour

When tech is researched you get random colour from ones mentoined, and you can always research the tech
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:36 pm

May I suggest:
When researched, all ghouls are transformed into a random color, and all future ghouls are randomly colored. No extra research necessary, as each individual ghoul is different.
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MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:05 pm

Sunrise Samurai wrote:May I suggest:
When researched, all ghouls are transformed into a random color, and all future ghouls are randomly colored. No extra research necessary, as each individual ghoul is different.
LordOfAles wrote:My idea is:

Cost 4 for changing colour

When tech is researched you get random colour from ones mentoined, and you can always research the tech
Both of these are actually really good ideas. They make the mutants more luck based, because you'd be trying to get a purple mutant, but get a blue one instead, but it would also add to the fun!
The only problem is that i fear it would be something that is difficult to code. Anyone got insight on that?

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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:21 pm

Roman auxiliary units from AoS are randomized products of the Roman Garrison, so I would think it would be a bit simple to code.

Just one extra feature makes this unique, and that will be the upgrades being randomly distributed throughout already produced units.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:23 pm

Part of the reason for my suggestion is that it adds some individuality to your army. Kind of how zombies have different injuries, for more realistic effect. (Example: not every zombie limps)
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MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:55 am

Puss_in_Boots wrote:Roman auxiliary units from AoS are randomized products of the Roman Garrison, so I would think it would be a bit simple to code.

Just one extra feature makes this unique, and that will be the upgrades being randomly distributed throughout already produced units.

So it would be easy to add into the game? Good! I know almost nothing about coding, so I assumed it would have been an absolute pain to add into the game.

Sunrise Samurai wrote:Part of the reason for my suggestion is that it adds some individuality to your army. Kind of how zombies have different injuries, for more realistic effect. (Example: not every zombie limps)
It's a great suggestion, and I definatly think the randomized colors are much better than what I had in mind previously! Thanks! :D

Went ahead and made a spreadsheet listing the unit's stats. Keep in mind, this is my first unit recommendation, and the stats may be dumb! Just let me know what you guys think, and what should be edited!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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LordOfAles
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by LordOfAles » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:23 am

Ey why not post here? Example:

Hp x
Attack x
Range x
Armor x/x
...
For each ghoul
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MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:36 am

Decided to just post the stats I had in mind here. Would prevent trouble
Green (Standard) - Hp- 23 Attack Power - 9 Armor- 0 P. Armor - 4 Speed - 3 Sight - 4 Spell Resist - 0% Abilities - Eat corpse
Purple - Hp 30 Attack Power - 9 Armor - 0 P. Armor - 4 Speed - 3 Sight - 4 Spell Resist - 0% Abilities - Eat Corpse, Lifesteal
Orange - Hp - 10 Attack power - 4 Armor - 0 P. Armor - 0 Speed - 3 Sight- 4 Spell Resist - 50% Abilities - Eat Corpse, Pain of Hell by Sacrifice*, Pain and Hit
Black - Hp - 30/40/45 Attack Power - 5 Armor - 4 P. Armor - 5 Speed - 3 Sight - 4 Spell Resist - 50% Abilities - Eat corpse
Red - Hp - 10/15/20 Attack Power - 15 Armor - 0 P. Armor - 1 Speed - 3 Sight - 4 Spell Resist - 0% Abilities - Eat Corpse
Blue - Hp - 20 Attack Power - 10 Armor - 0 P. Armor - 4 Speed - 1 (On land) 4 (In water) Sight - 2 (On land) 5 (In water) Spell Resist - 0% Abilities - Eat corpse

HP for black and red are different because i dont know which would work best there.
* = Optional

These are the stats i came up with. Go ahead and let me know if any of them need to be changed, but i personally think that they are pretty decent for a cost 3 unit.
Last edited by MikeyHud on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

MikeyHud
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by MikeyHud » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:37 am

LordOfAles wrote:Ey why not post here? Example:

Hp x
Attack x
Range x
Armor x/x
...
For each ghoul
Was actually working on that when you posted :lol:

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General Brave
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by General Brave » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:13 pm

Seems like a idea.
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Lynx Shafir
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Lynx Shafir » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:30 am

Time for necroposting :twisted:


@Alexander82, so my question is
Would you support more ghoul variants with random production with different traits?



If yes than I'll make some variants and stats
The current One with bleeding passive
Than ;paralysis, aquatic, and tank at least
With cost 4 random variant



Here's the model I drawn
As to replace current ghoul
Attachments
grey ghouls 1.png
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Thy gave me a sword to pierce a lie,
Serrated edge for the deamon inside
A moment I'm torn between two tides,
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Alexander82
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:58 am

Can you sum up briefly thr various effects?

Also would all ghouls cost 4 and spawn at random?
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Alexander82
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:59 am

Btw the replacement for current ghould is really nice and can be used right now.
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Savra
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Savra » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:17 pm

Hmm, that image reminds me of a unit from another game...

Looks great though.

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Lynx Shafir
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Lynx Shafir » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:15 am

Shaded more, made limbs thinner
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grey ghouls 2.png
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Thy gave me a sword to pierce a lie,
Serrated edge for the deamon inside
A moment I'm torn between two tides,
But all I need, I bear inside

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Lynx Shafir
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Re: Mutant Variants

Post by Lynx Shafir » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:31 am

Alexander82 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:58 am
Can you sum up briefly thr various effects?

Also would all ghouls cost 4 and spawn at random?
Yes
Cost increase because potent effects and better stats

For now I name them after colours, later may change
The two main variants would be

1."GREY " current one
Has sharp claws, bleeding passive (-2hp/t turn) and some infantry bonus - depending on attack

2.YELLOW :Has potent poison
" komodo poison (slow and weakness - 2both no stacking)

3."RED"-Most aggressive, 2 action, 4spd heal on kill

4.BLACK - high hp, trampling atk, extra bonus to structuree

5.GREEN" , perhaps poison spit, and "explode" on death

.LACEDON - Aquatic counterpart of grey, very slow on land, water infantry bonuses (non existent yet)
(included here, had own topic)

3

Much depends what stats get stronger zombies
Till wouldn't make "rushers"or" tanks"

Open to suggestions
Like
-one with metal spikes as kamikaze,
Siege tipe with full counter
-.one benefiting from corpse parasite (tech
Or on death intestines explodes - poison breath.

The more complex ones (if) would be part of veil cult subs experiments, like are the humunculus, quite man etc
Last edited by Lynx Shafir on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thy gave me a sword to pierce a lie,
Serrated edge for the deamon inside
A moment I'm torn between two tides,
But all I need, I bear inside

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