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Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:47 pm
by makazuwr32
i am not complaining about sci-fi. personally i.

I don't like idea of mutant insects with good enough brains and power to fight with orcs and humans on their terms (via both good basic and elite units and plenty amount of upgrades, both blacksmith and unit ones)
IF we will implement them they must be more like zergs from starcraft - mindless weak basics who have high speed and can be produced faster than others and big, heavy late units (also not of the same altitude as olog hais, weaker still).

Elements are not yet in the game so don't rely on 'em now.

Zombies? really? if they will be of similar stats as current ones than i wish good luck trying to kill SOMETHING with 'em apart from basic units.

Also if it is as you are saying than this race will be even LESS popular than elves and undeads currently.
Because they will be THE WEAKEST RACE OF ALL.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:58 pm
by General Brave
First thing why do they need to be mutants, also why Zerg.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:03 pm
by LordOfAles
Because sc Zergs are insects and best represent insect strategy that would insects use in general.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:03 pm
by makazuwr32
Zergs from starcraft are the most notable for me variant of this race design.
Swarming fast low hp units early (in first starcraft while humans would have like 40-50 troops zergs will have 300-400) and gaining better, more powerful troops in late game.

Not because they are insects. Mainly because they are best variant that nearly everyone knows.

Ofc i know few more ones - from custom wc3 maps, in homm3 (undeads there for example can go easily into zerg rush) and in homm 5 (dark elves because of their powerful offencive magic).

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:04 pm
by General Brave
First of all insects ain't all that mindless. Especially the ants and bees.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:05 pm
by LordOfAles
Yes, insects must be fully agrresive like zerg and humans must rely on support and avoiding direct melee combat. Like in Starcraft. Also they aren't smart either. Ants know only how to gather and bite and dig holes, bees know only how to fly, gather and sting and make homes...what was it called.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:08 pm
by Savra
Yah, well for stats I originally wanted their melee units to work kinda like how elves used to work, you know the double action attacks?
As for purpose they aren't that bad because they could still move quickly to the enemy base and capture tcs about as fast as elves. Upgrades are not official and could use a rework.
As for intelligence the queens are the ones that make up their main intelligence and might just be unique.
Wasp folk are supposed to be the elite units that should have weaker stats then the other races to make up for their flying. Might get rid of the shielded though.
Siege they still have at least one siege unit which is like the humans battering ram only a bit weaker.
Buildings will get an update in stats.
Spiders and certain other bugs are meant for fighting the enemy's infantry.

Finally if no one likes it as a faction then it could be the harrasser race every race has been looking for, and that alone would get quite a few aggreements.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:11 pm
by Savra
Actually they could be the harraser race until people really want them as a playable.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:12 pm
by Tankhead
From what I'm getting you want a different concept on the insect race and not want them completely removed. ( maka, lord of Ales )

On the other hand theirs the concept of insects becoming smarter over time with technology and actually becoming a solid society like race
( sarva, general brave )

Then theirs the ones who just want to have another type of race in or atleast get accepted for later ( me )

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:17 pm
by makazuwr32
Personally i prefer them not to be a part of game at all BUT IF they will be than yes i want different concept.

As for races themselves (newer ones) demons, beastclans and mystical beings will fit much better than this one as for me.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:17 pm
by General Brave
We can have a compromise.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:22 pm
by Savra
What's the compramise? Change race play style to zerg, turn them into neutral aggressive ai that has all units we suggested and buildings plus you could still use them in campaign?

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:24 pm
by Tankhead
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:17 pm
Personally i prefer them not to be a part of game at all BUT IF they will be than yes i want different concept.

As for races themselves (newer ones) demons, beastclans and mystical beings will fit much better than this one as for me.
Mystical beings? Didn't think anyone would care for that considering alot of mystical creatures are being suggested to other races.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:27 pm
by makazuwr32
Huh. I still have a plenty inspiration for this race (mystical beings one, not insects). Angels, elementals (better, more powerful, more variety), nature spirits (more powerful than elven ones), titans to mention some of.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:33 pm
by General Brave
I mean at the beginning it could start out Zerg like, then if allowed to grow. It slowly becomes more organize.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:36 pm
by makazuwr32
But their zerg like units must not have many upgrades.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:37 pm
by Tankhead
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:27 pm
Huh. I still have a plenty inspiration for this race (mystical beings one, not insects). Angels, elementals (better, more powerful, more variety), nature spirits (more powerful than elven ones), titans to mention some of.
Well since you will keep up the idea then I won't give up hope on it. In fact ill make the topic active some time.
Your concept of things usually makes it easier to come up with things. If you could put that into mystical topic that would be great

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:39 pm
by Savra
Hmm this is getting intresting.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:41 pm
by General Brave
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:36 pm
But their zerg like units must not have many upgrades.
We can have the regular ones as the Zerg like units, I'm guessing they will be one cost.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:45 pm
by makazuwr32
I was thinking about a bit different way:
Some buildings will have 0.5 cost of tc (the ones that can produce those zerg like units)

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:47 pm
by General Brave
What do you mean by that.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:50 pm
by makazuwr32
I mean that you can build 2 buildings for zerg-like units per each tc.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:55 pm
by General Brave
So one Town Center allows you to build two Zerg like buildings.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:56 pm
by Tankhead
Wow, sounds like this race will even outnumber undead

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:00 pm
by makazuwr32
Yes it can. But their numbers early is only advantage.
Undeads have good resist to piercing damage and can move through water, can raise dead.
Orcs are much more powerful especially if they will use crushers or other units with power range. Or if they will use armored units.
Same is for humans/dwarves.
Elves will have much higher range of attack and sight.

Also if you built 1 zerg building and you have 1 tc count than you can't build normal one building.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:08 pm
by Tankhead
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:00 pm
Yes it can. But their numbers early is only advantage.
Undeads have good resist to piercing damage and can move through water, can raise dead.
Orcs are much more powerful especially if they will use crushers or other units with power range. Or if they will use armored units.
Same is for humans/dwarves.
Elves will have much higher range of attack and sight.

Also if you built 1 zerg building and you have 1 tc count than you can't build normal one building.
I mean wouldn't this race have numbers in air and water too considering bugs can fly,swim.
And anything with with numbers no matter how weak is still difficult to beat.
Can't wait to see the new ideas on this one

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:10 pm
by LordOfAles
Zerg can only build on infested land. I was thinking about giving radius around TC's where player can build to prevent worker swarms making towers.

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:11 pm
by makazuwr32
Well. Try to fight for orcs or humans against current elves — right now they are similar a bit to these ones ecept they are ranged zergs with melee wolves from dens. Extremly easy killable by any race with unit with good defence (like imperial shielder or uruk hai of higher levels) and support of range or some sort of aoe damage.

You will be surprized how fast they will melt down even if they have production advantage

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:31 pm
by Tankhead
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:11 pm
Well. Try to fight for orcs or humans against current elves — right now they are similar a bit to these ones ecept they are ranged zergs with melee wolves from dens. Extremly easy killable by any race with unit with good defence (like imperial shielder or uruk hai of higher levels) and support of range or some sort of aoe damage.

You will be surprized how fast they will melt down even if they have production advantage

I hope the new concept allows a few strong units at least

Re: Insects

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:40 pm
by Savra
So are they still strong at air, or we going with something else? Cause right now nobody is superior at air.