Page 2 of 2

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:08 pm
by makazuwr32
Still elves need better units with more health. including archers.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:56 pm
by Stratego (dev)
Alexander82 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:04 pm
I'd like to get @Stratego (dev) opinion one how to make it, first.

Once it is clear I can make it in no time.

I think we can solve a lot of the problems that elves have against heavy armored units (it will have a cost in terms of turns so I think it will be pretty balanced).

Coupled with aimed shot they will defintely have the best archers (especially on the damage/cost ratio) and an acceptable infantry.
Ok! What is the question to decide here?

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:08 pm
by makazuwr32
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:56 pm
Alexander82 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:04 pm
I'd like to get Stratego (dev) opinion one how to make it, first.

Once it is clear I can make it in no time.

I think we can solve a lot of the problems that elves have against heavy armored units (it will have a cost in terms of turns so I think it will be pretty balanced).

Coupled with aimed shot they will defintely have the best archers (especially on the damage/cost ratio) and an acceptable infantry.
Ok! What is the question to decide here?
Both upgrades suggested here will increase minimal damage dealt by elves (by +1 to minimal damage per each level of).
The question is how to make it first.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:42 pm
by Stratego (dev)
What minimal damage means?

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:53 pm
by makazuwr32
Right now if unit has for example 1000 armor and someone deals damage to this unit it will deal only 1 damage if no dodges.
These techs are intended to increase this minimal damage to 2/3/4 per each level of tech for either melee units or ranged ones so that for example even quick archer will deal to olog hai of max level 2/3/4 damage with each shot regardless of armor.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:00 pm
by Lynx Shafir
But if a unit has no/low armor that means it gets additional dmg, don't?
So can kill a mellee infantry in one shot.
With bonus to foot and flying isn't that too much dmg to a basic 2 cost Archer?

May if u would add a "elven huntress" that could get the ignoring armor attacks.
Semi elites units to keep more balanced


Anyway just don't make the AI have it by default or the campaign against elves will be unbeatable.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:17 pm
by makazuwr32
No. It doesn't increase damage against targets with low/no armor at all. It increases only minimal damage possible. So your troops will deal instead of 1 damage 4 to that imperial shielder with 8/10 armor.

Against for example orc warrior elf archer will do normal damage and no additional increase must be there.
If you have for example all upgrades and clear vision on your elf archer than he will have 10 base damage and 50% bonus to orc warrior (basic one, master variant with 2 p.armor) than archer will do 10 + 10*0.5 - 2 = 13 damage. Because this value is higher than 1 than no damage increase.

That how this must work.
It doesn't completely ignore armor. It only increases minimal possible damage.
Also you can't research these techs right from scrap - each tech requires same or higher level of melee or ranged elven weapons so as for me it is balanced.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:43 pm
by Alexander82
Exactly.

You pay a lot of turns to obtain the ability to deal a guaranteed amount of damage.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:47 pm
by Alexander82
@Stratego (dev) is it possible to create a new string in jsons like MinimumDamageDealt that we can play with?

We might also use it to create units that have a fixed amount of minimum amount of damage dealt or that deal 0 damage (for example workers or pure mages might have a MinimumDamageDealt of 0 that might make more sense since armored units shouldn't receive damag from a simple tool or a staff).

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:40 am
by Stratego (dev)
ok, we can implement it.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:03 pm
by Alexander82
Ok. Since I and many other forumers consider this needed can I start writing the jsons?

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:40 pm
by Stratego (dev)
Ok!
Lets call it "powerBase"

It must be smaller than power, if power is smalller, than power is used instead of powerBase (Eg. An effect can decrease power of a unit, so this will be decreased too as a result)

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:27 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:40 pm
Ok!
Lets call it "powerBase"

It must be smaller than power, if power is smalller, than power is used instead of powerBase (Eg. An effect can decrease power of a unit, so this will be decreased too as a result)
Makes sense. Assuming an elf archer has powerbase 4 (after 3 techs) but no archery upgrades, so 6 power, and an effect gives -3 power to it then it has 3 power. This being lower than the 4 powerbase, it is used instead and the archer will deal 3 damage instead of 4.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:28 pm
by Alexander82
Good thinking

Shall we add "powerbase"=1 to every unit or they can gain a higher powerbase from techs?

e.g. If my tech gives 1 powerbase to a unit that has no defined powerbase shall the powerbase become 1 or will automatically become 2?

Otherwise I can simply make the first level give powerbase=2 (to make minimum damage equal to 2)

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:34 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
I think this means every unit needs edited for powerbase 1, and these techs simply add +1 each to it.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:36 pm
by Alexander82
Probably. On the worst case we can test it before putting in game the techs

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:48 pm
by Stratego (dev)
Powerbase will be 1 by default as it works like this already.
Also dont forget the same value will be used against flying units! (In case the unit uses non ranged attack)

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:57 pm
by Alexander82
I think it is ok. It is not a great issue I guess.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:16 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Considering elves are the only ones currently considered for an increase in powerbase, I think it can be justified as being nimble enough to strike even a flying opponent that comes too close.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:22 pm
by Alexander82
Sure, i tought the same thing but also from a balance reason it is good against other dragons and using ranged it is still pretty better

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:50 pm
by Stratego (dev)
ok powerbase value is in - in next update will be out.

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:58 pm
by Alexander82
Ok. I'll start working on the jsons

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - FINALIZED

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:12 pm
by Stratego (dev)
powerBase:
- i was wrong i can make it default1 as they are default 0
- so i renamed the new property to "powerBaseModifier" so it will be considered as damage = 1 + powerBaseModifier when the armor was equal or more than attack.
- i have updated the 6 jsons that used powerbase to name it as "powerBaseModifier" (however the jsons were wrong as they used "PowerBase" with capital P but the property name was "powerBase". But no problem from now it is "powerBaseModifier"

Re: Fencing mastery and Precision shot - IMPLEMENTED

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:33 pm
by Alexander82
IMPLEMENTED