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Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades - IMPLEMENTED

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:11 pm
by Alexander82
Balanced blades
Image
Cost: 3
Builder: Elven Craftsman
Effect:
The sword dancer gain an additional action

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:43 am
by Sunrise Samurai
Well, it sounds nice. Until I get to play with the dodge techs I can't say if it's really useful. Right now the only good elf melee units worth using are sentinel and centaur. Swords dancer is just too easy to kill right now for me to care to play with, since I wanty melee to tank the front lines. I've been thinking it should exchange it's building bonus for infantry bonus, becoming a melee anti infantry unit. That would give it a more defined role at least.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:49 am
by Alexander82
Yes, It might work.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:56 am
by Sunrise Samurai
Seems we've been vote happy on balance/role changes for many existing units. Think we should put up a vote topic for removing sword dancer's bonus damage against buildings and replacing it with bonus damage against infantry? It would pair well with sentinel and centaur that way. Sentinel hits hard vs Giants and cavalry, centaur hits hard vs archers, and sword dancer would complete the set at taking out infantry.

Also, it might be a good idea to remove the bottom tier elf melee units entirely. I don't see much use in them, and they detract from the idea that elf melee units are fewer​ in number, but very skilled at what they do.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:59 am
by Alexander82
Sure, why not. I was already thinking about raising his hp a bit (maybe 28 or 30) but i'm waiting for the evasion tech pack to be in (i've already sent all jsons and images to Daniel)

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:01 am
by Sunrise Samurai
Ahh you beat me to the post. I edited my last to say a bit more without reposting.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:05 am
by Alexander82
I don't think we should remove swordman and warrior. They are useful sometimes. I use the warrior against cavalry when I need a fast unit and with evasion it will last more (80% dodge counter is not bad at all). The swordsman is useful to bring down some buildings (for example I recruit some in fresh captured tcs to bring down factories or towers).

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:10 am
by Sunrise Samurai
True. I've done the swordsman in fresh tc approach too, since they build fast and help take the base a little quicker. Again, we come to that balancing wall of needing to see how dodge techs change things lol. If swordsman and warrior​ don't​ die so quickly, they might resurface as something we build in uncertain situations, where enemies might attack a tc within 3-5 turns.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:13 am
by Alexander82
Yes, sometimes you just have no time so you make a basic archer or a warrior instead of quick archers or sentinels

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:24 am
by Sunrise Samurai
Okay, back to the original post, a third action on swords dancer sounds like it adds flavor to the idea. As a matter of alliteration, I would just call it "balanced blades" for a more pleasing name, but that is only my opinion. It might be an interesting idea to consider applying it to elf swordsman as well. I doubt an extra action would make a large difference there, aside from again, flavor.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:27 am
by Alexander82
I tought of it but that would definitely make it better than a sword dancer

2x2 turns 4 attacks

1x4 turns 3 attacks

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:31 am
by Sunrise Samurai
......math strikes again :|

So much for that idea.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:35 am
by Alexander82
Sunrise Samurai wrote:I would just call it "balanced blades" for a more pleasing name, but that is only my opinion.
To be honest i started with the same name but that would have meant that the blade wasn't balanced before (which sounds odd too) so i added the "perfectly" to make it like those blades are masterpiece.

Another option was "mithril blades" since mithril is pretty light and would have made great blades for sword dancers

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:40 am
by Sunrise Samurai
Maybe "aerodynamics" would work, as they carefully reduce the drag from the air to increase speed. It would certainly indicate more precise blacksmithing.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:41 pm
by Alexander82
Image

Daniel, Tell me if it is ok for you so i can add that to the vote list

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:29 am
by Stratego (dev)
image is nice, but please summarize me the tech description, i am not sure it ment to affect only dancer but other elves too.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:06 am
by Sunrise Samurai
It was actually only for sword dancer. Alexander did a cost comparison on if it affected cheaper elves, and found it to be more powerful on them, and we aren't looking for more reason to use sentinel. It's just +1 action to sword dancer.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:36 pm
by Alexander82
Exactly. It is just a +1 action for the sword dancer. It will make him stronger later on and even more if you research the dodge pack

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:28 pm
by Alexander82
Edited the main topic and added to the list

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:13 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
You know, for the fact that this seems designed with jump as a combination, maybe these should be made into a series, say requiring this one to research jump.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:15 pm
by Alexander82
With Daniel we are working on a redesign of the game to make more connections and requirements for upgrades. I was also thinking to make balanced blades researchable after the third level smithing (it is the same blade as you can see). But that would be the same for all races (and obviously we should also revise costs).

Anyway we might already start with this combo.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:33 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Yeah. Third level smithing required for this. I'm seeing elves as the race strongest in research, just as orcs go into the strongest for individual unit upgrades.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:39 pm
by Alexander82
Yeah, while humans are a mix of both

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:57 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Humans also have elements​ of a third system, research to unlock powerful new units (catapults) and abilities (fireball) that I think will be a good system to start putting on undead.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:00 pm
by Alexander82
Undeads are definitely strong on spells/spell-like abilities/special effects

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:21 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Yeah. I'm thinking undead could balance out upgrading as researching the ability to build more powerful units, rather than changing existing units. For example, death knight or bone dragon could be researched to use (albeit this would nerf undead, so it's just an example) at say 6 turns research.

Back on topic, elf techs requiring the basic blacksmith techs related to them sounds like a good way to impart some flavor to it.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:55 pm
by Alexander82
That might be a good approach and balance might be achieved by adding different steps in the middle.

Re: Elf tech - Perfectly balanced blades ACCEPTED

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:41 pm
by Alexander82
IMPLEMENTED