Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Evasion (3 levels)

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:56 pm

Seeing as these are ways other races can deal with a single human unit, I don't see much point in looking for a way to protect humans. They have an advantage​ already in making their own assassins.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:41 pm

Merged the topics
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:27 am

Looking at the JSONs given to us, I don't see the values for this. I'm guessing Daniel hasn't had time to code this into the core engine to be valid?
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:53 pm

Ok. They're in the dev version, but I do find it awkward researching them at tcs. The big issue there though is mostly that elf tcs are stretched too thin as it is, for mages and melee.....let's not forget that you need melee for half the dodge techs to work on, meaning it's even harder to make that choice. I think it boils down to needing buildings for the melee and magic units.

Edit: okay, a few bugs to work out. Sent a crash report to Daniel, but I should post the warning that my first experience with them was a crash upon research completion.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:40 am

Strange i had them tested and I didn't experience a crash.

Anyway i might also put them at the smith but basically they are some sort of training so it seems a bit strange to me researching them at the smith.

Archery range would make sense only for dodge arrows and the great tree might work but you can't always build one (for space issue).

I might place those techs both at tcs and great tree so you can use them in maps with enough free spaces. What do you think?
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:13 am

I'd say we could go back to the "training field" idea I seem to remember for elf melee. That would fit as a way to train melee plus a way to research the dodge techs, which would count as a kind of training. Barring that, I'd put dodge arrows in the archery range and have the rest at both tcs and great tree. That at least eases the problem somewhat​, plus gives a decent home for at least one of them.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:24 am

Sounds good this way for now
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:12 pm

Daniel got back to me on the crash report. Turns out I had it wrong. Apparently, the ai thought it was a good idea to have a troll shaman regenerate a goblin slave, which I guess nobody ever bothered to do in order to figure out that particular event causes a crash..... well, maybe goblin slaves really aren't the ideal targets for regeneration anyway. :P
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:21 pm

XD
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:10 pm

It just timed precisely the same moment I finished research on dodge arrows. Although, at this point the ai isn't getting close enough to really test anything on. I think I need a human opponent who can​ actually get close enough to be a threat. :lol:
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:35 pm

Yeah. We can test elves vs orcs later. We might try uruk swarm vs evasion freaks XD

Anyway i've edited the jsons to add the alternative buildings but Daniel won't be able to put them in before tomorrow
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:52 pm

Pm me with game name and password. You can pick the sides. I'd also like to test a human vs undead naval map to see if ghost ship is up to par.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:02 pm

Sure
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:46 pm

Seems balanced to me so far. I'm seeing a tremendous improvement in survival rates after all dodge techs are researched, but the cost seems fair, and they aren't likely to dodge to the point of irritation.

Well.... except for the one time I sent a sentinel to hold a 3x1 causeway for a turn. I expected Alexander's mass of uruks and a headhunter to kill it, but not have enough firepower left for my other troops. Instead, I find a full health sentinel and Alexander informs me it looked like the guy from the matrix.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:48 pm

Yeah, i was literally going to throw my phone xD
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:34 pm

Occasional bits of evidence that the rng hates you aside, would you agree that it seems more or less balanced?
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Even trying an almost completely upgraded uruk army isn't working so this definitely settle the balance between elves and orcs. If I went with orcs at the start i might have some more advantage (more units could make a better response against the chance to dodge) but i think that they are balanced now. We still need some more checking to be sure about the dodge % but it seems ok.

I think we might do just an adjustment giving an increased chance to hit to units with bonus against a certain unit type (e.g. Spearmen and cavalry) but otherwise they are ok.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:04 pm

Not sure about the bonus hit chance, but I bet it boils down to starting with uruks. That gave you a slow start, which I helped by aiming for your workers and intercepting your scouting units as fast as I could. Setting tcs to many also made a difference, as I had plenty of tcs to research without sacrificing much production.

You also should have upgraded headhunters. Their 3 attacks give a good chance to hit, and they aren't exactly weak even on units that aren't archers.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:45 pm

Yeah but there is no point in investing in too many multiple researches at once if you can't produce enough units. I would have ended up with still less units and no tcs. Elven are still the best in early game (every elf is worth as a scout and you can still vary your army).

Anyway let's continue with the game as it is. Elves are the first approach with the evasion mechanic and we might need to adjust something later.
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Re: Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alexander82 » Tue May 28, 2019 3:46 pm

IMPLEMENTED
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