Giant magnifying glass

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Pyro
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Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:15 am

Giant Magnifying Glass

Image

If there is one thing that im missing while besieging as the dwarves is FiErY DEstRuCtiON :mrgreen:

The "giant magnifying glass" is a siege unit that captures the energy of the sun and and releases it in concentrated rays. It does little to no damage directly, but can inflict crippling to minor burn statuses depending on how far away your target is. When used up close, if your oponent doesnt react quickly enough, they may be facing a charred mega structure within 1-2 turns. When used from afar, your oponent will be pressed to prevent their walls from slowly burning.

Cost: 5
Hp: 25
Attack: 2 (burning weapon)
Range: 4
Minimum Range: 3
Armor: 2
P. Armor: 4
Speed: 2 (siege weapon)
Sight: 10
Action Turn: 6/6
Spell Resistance: 0%

Abilities:

Medium Range Beam - Gives +2 range for 1 turn, uses 2 actions. 0 cooldown.

Long Range Beam- Gives +4 range for 1 turn, uses 4 actions . 0 cooldown.

As you see, this unit doesnt deal well with flesh and blood units but punishes those who dont protect their valuable builders.

Just for added speculation, an upgrade to this unit could be a giant telescope that does everything that the former does but adds +5 sight and spy detection
Last edited by Pyro on Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:10 am

Not bad idea as for me but i am not sure if it is possible to apply multiple stacks with single ability on current engine.

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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:17 am

Also I think that 10 stacks together can instantkill any unit vulnerable to fire
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makazuwr32
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:03 pm

Actually no.
It deals only 40 damage.
If unit has more than 44 hp it won't instadie (undead dragon for example or olog hai despite increased damage from burning).

Pyro
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:24 pm

With testing (something i shouldve done beforehand :? ) i found that 10 stacked fire does insta kill. Currently though, im confused as to how fire works as on the castle, one fire status will 125 damage per turn but say on a golden skeleton rider, it only does 3. Regardless, im gonna tone down the fire affects and suggest a new status identical to fire, but X times stronger
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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:35 pm

burning deal a fixed damage multiplied for the bonus related to the target category

Both fortified/mega buildings and trolls get a huge amount of extra damage by fire
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Pyro
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro » Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 am

At 5 cost, within 4 tiles away, using both of its 2/2 attacks, this unit can raze down a castle within 2 turns if nothing is done about its confrontation. Keep in mind it only has a speed of 2. Is this balanced? All ears
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makazuwr32
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:03 am

Maybe a bit higher amounts of burning but only 1 action.
Like 5/3/1.

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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:12 am

I think it is balanced but aside from that:

1) we cannot add multiple instance of burning in a json
2) those things required quite some times to be used effectively so I can't think of them being used on something different than a building or a ship into a port
3) dwarves will have ranged siege with longer range (but for a higher cost)
4) those mirrors (they were mirrors) will be something difficult to carry around.

The idea itself is nice but maybe you might change the concept of the unit like

A) a low cost wooden gnomish tower that can apply burning on enemies

B) an ability for units with a mirror shield that can apply burning, maybe during a defensive stance (it is believed that originally it was made by using multiple mirrors or polished shields).

Feel free to add other ideas
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Savra
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Savra » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:17 am

I think it could work for both ships and tower. But not a wooden tower. With it though we can finally change the dwarf guard tower to normal cannonball shots rather then lava or flaming rocks. It would be nice if the damage could increase over time or something, but I don't think that's programmable, or the engine might not support it either.

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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:36 am

I was thinking to something that could be placed as an early defence line providing the final amount of burning requested

A line of this cheap mirrors could really cause a lot of burning compared to a few costly towers.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:32 am

What if make this siege to work as trebushet?
Cart mode without abilities other than transfrom with some speed (moving form) and magnifying glass mode (siege form without moving)?

I think this way it can work.

As for many stacks for single turn i have idea:
5 abilities with ranges 4/5/6/7/8, 1 actions cost, 1 turn cooldown and each exept last one give +1 action. Each just applies 1 stack of burning. This way in range 4 you will be able to apply 5 stacks and in range 8 only 1 stack in single turn.

And lastly: maybe make it tiered as well (i suppose they will have tiers for their siege as well)?
If yes than we can have:
Tier 1 - range 4 ability;
Tier 2 - range 4 + ranges 5 and 6 abilities;
Tier 3 - ranges 4, 5 and 6 + ranges 7 and 8 abilities.
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:40 am

Yes, it is more likely to be made this way. Anyway it can't have multiple burning in one action.

To do that it should have multiple actions.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:44 am

Updated my previous post.

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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:55 am

I was thinking to something different.

Now we can set action cost for abilities so high range ability might require 5 actions while the most basic can use less.

Another way could be just giving it burning weapon and make the abilities spend actions to increase temporary the unit's range

So you basically use always the normal attack but you need to self buff (that stacks with itself) more time to increase range if you want to hit a further enemy
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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:56 am

Btw we also need to check how much damage is dealt by a single instance of burning to the most vulnerable targets.
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Pyro
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:19 pm

Adressing the flavor of the unit, despite what the picture may seem like like, the unit its intended to mount several refractive lens, perhaps made of large transparent gemstones found within dwarven mines, that concentrate passing light. The are not mirrors.

Also, I tried to avoid adding many actions to the unit because I thought it would counter undead hordes too well, thus why i suggest additional identical fire statuses that are X times more potent
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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:47 pm

if we make an ability require more actions it will be fine
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:49 pm

Also I suggest to give it a higher minimum range so it won't be able to attack in melee
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Pyro
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:52 am

Good idea will do :D

:Edit: the changes I made are this

The unit no longer attacks using ability/spells. It now has burning weapon, 4 range and 6/6 actions. At a maximum distance of 4 tiles, it can inflict 6 burning statuses in 1 turn. Using the medium range ability, at 6 tiles away, it can inflict 4 burning statuses. Using the long range ability, at 8 tiles away, it can inflict only 2 burning statuses.
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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:08 pm

What about:
attack: 0
range: 4
actions: 5
default burning weapon

abilities:

Align lenses - uses 1 action and provide 1 range for 1 turn
or
attack: 0
range: 0
casting range: 4
actions: 5
default burning weapon

abilities:

Align lenses - uses 1 action and provide 1 casting range for 1 turn

Ray of light - inflict 1 burning instance to a target in its casting range
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makazuwr32
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:39 pm

I would only prefer to use regular range because it will allow to make things easier to look and count.

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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:13 pm

In the end they will have the same effect overall, the only thing about the ability is that it won't be dodged but it won't be able to target inside tcs

I think that among the 2 is the best behaiour (dodging light isn't something that can't be done without being a gold saint :D )
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:37 pm

Hm here you are right.

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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:52 pm

+1 alexander, i think the second option is better aswell. Also, "align lenses" is such a perfect name and immerses the unit even more, i like it
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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:13 am

I guess it is settled.

I only think we need some testing to balance how much damage a fire instance does so that we can balance the max amount of actions and starting range.
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Alexander82
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Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:17 am

Btw I also think that tjis concept is perfect for gnomes so I'd like that unit for their sub (which will be part of dwarven race)
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