Dwarven Tunneler - MERGED

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Dwarven Tunneler - MERGED

Post by max-damage » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:48 pm

Basically a non-combat or low power infantry unit that digs tunnels from any given distance under enemy structures, collapsing their foundations (works for enemy walls, too) and rendering them useless as well as granting access into enemy fortifications for friendly units...tunnelling speed should be slow, probably about 2, and the unit would be invulnerable to physical attack once in a tunnel, unless an enemy reaches and enters the tunnel behind the tunneler...

As for an icon, maybe the one at (84, 92) in this thread's list... http://www.ageofstrategy.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=43

Possible stats:

Hp: 15
Speed (above ground): 3 (when tunneling): 2
Attack: 4
Armour: 0
Pierce armour: 0
Range: 1
Spell resist.: 20% (?)


Any thoughts?
Last edited by max-damage on Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by dust-n-steel » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:10 pm

When it's possible, I'm in!

The tunneller Image should can build 2 tunnel entries (those can teleport units to each other): Image
You can destroy an entry and rebuild it at another place when you want to change it.
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:10 am

I don't know about teleporting units, but that would make things easier in troop movement...it would be hard to keep track of where units are when underground if they have a long way to go...

By the way, Dusty, i like your icon more than the one i listed...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by dust-n-steel » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:25 am

No, no way in the underground. Just two tunnels for each (dwarven) player. When a unit enters one of the building, the unit should be teleported to the second tunnel. That would be a cool idea for the gameplay for this race or what?!
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:53 am

teleport idea is not bad, earlier i thought of a spell that eg. an elven magician can bring up teleport gate.

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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by dust-n-steel » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:12 am

I think it's a good dwarwen-only ability
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:54 am

I thought the tunnel thing would be cold for siege missions...enemy fortifications can be hard to defeat, even with a host of trebuchets and catapults, when flaming arrows and boiling oil are raining down on your troops...the idea (for me) was to collapse walks and buildings and get inside your enemy's compound...

I'm trying to help come up with race-specific techs, since there seems to be a shortage of them for the non-human races, up to now...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:56 pm

I like it.

there is a game which use simialiar mechanism...
tunneler: what do you rhink? should it have a pickaxe instead?

teleport->OP. I prepare an army behind my fortress, then send them intoo your in one tirn :)
idea: the tunnel van hold 8 dwarves at a time, and they can come out at any tunnel
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by dust-n-steel » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:35 pm

Or maybe just 2 that they have to leave fast and fortify there :)
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:42 pm

How about this: the tunnel can hold one unit for each tile it crosses and units entering one entrance move 3 per turn until they exit the other end, but they do it automatically (the movement rate/exit time)...this would greatly simplify things for players to not have to keep track of units while in the tunnel and for Daniel to write the code...instant teleportation would be far too overpowering...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:06 pm

overpower: i am not sure: you can not build a portal/tunnel very close to enemy since you must defend it. so i think it is not so op anymore if the portal is easy enough to kill.

and also: you can not easyily build it behind enemy lines - since the portal caster/digger must go behind the lines somehow...


i like the way that
- a few units can go in (eg. 3)
- and all those units can come out
- if the portal/tunnel is destroyed -> all units inside could die!
- and also: entering the tunnel/portal will cost all movement points so you can not go in and come out in the same turn. (even with a unit like the light cavalry with 2x3 movement - that we talked about)

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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:23 pm

I like that way.
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:53 pm

You misunderstand...as a physical tunnel, the tunneler units will start at point a, outside of the enemy complex, dig underground, then dig progressively toward the enemy's walls/towers/buildings--the enemy's complex, in other words...as the tunnel progresses under walls, the walls collapse, being undermined literally, and troops are free to enter through the opening in the wall...the tunneler units continue inside the enemy complex, then break out of the ground/hill/mountain, making an exit at point b for siege troops inside the enemy installation...when the entrance is, say, 12 tiles away from the enemy walls to start with, it's unlikely enemy troops will leave the safety of the besieged complex to cross dozens or hundreds of siege troops to try to collapse the entrance...that's part of the reason the tunnels are effective...the entrance is isolated from the enemy troops and by the time the exit appears, attacking troops are flooding out of it...if the tunneler gets killed, that's just the price of war...

This is based on a unit in a pc game called Stronghold, and it works extremely well...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:26 pm

yes, but that tunneler works different. at least as I noticed.

you have to send it next to the wall, then ordrr to start digging. it digs under the buildings. then destroys the tunnel and the builsings above it. but it don't works on large towers...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:14 pm

Right, it wouldn't work on TC's, castles or fortresses, but it's effective against most other structures...it doesn't have to be started beside enemy walls, but the further from the enemy complex the entrance is, the longer it will take for the tunnel to reach the enemy's perimeter...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:31 pm

Good to know that I can use my tunnelers in stronghold this way :)
I didn't realised it.
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:01 pm

Yes, just remember that (in stronghold), the tunnelers are vulnerable until they get underground...and you have no control over what enemy structure they'll dig toward--i think they head for whatever is closest...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:52 pm

look at lotr battle for middle earth. the dwarves have a good system. they send 6 units into the mines and they are able to call them out from aby of rhe mines.
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:56 pm

I've never played that...what platform is it?
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:35 am

It is for PC. on youtube the only person I know wjo made a playtrough of this is Magyar Hoplita. but you won't understand what he speaks :)
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:07 pm

I don't need to understand his commentary as long as the game text is in English...thanks...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:57 pm

ok. did you watched it?

I link here the wiki oage of the game. (or not)
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:03 pm

I misunderstood that game mechanic...
it can hold units inside it.

Anyway, the idea, that they enter and able to come out from every other tunnel entrance is quite good.
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:58 pm

That's very cool!! I didn't watch it, yet, i got busy and forgot...I'll watch it this evening when everyone is asleep...thanks, brah... ;-)
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by balint » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:03 pm

ok ;)
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by Coronel » Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:03 am

I was thinking... what if the tunnelry was just a unit like the assasin with insane bonuses agianst buildings? This way it will be way easier for Daniel to program...
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by ollie444 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:53 pm

I see...
This would be too OP against buildings, I think, but you could use it to attack archers/mages hidden behind the opposing lines. In this case, tunnelers would have to have good attack and armor, and would be unable to go underneath the enemy.

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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by Coronel » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:58 pm

It wouldn't have to be OP agianst buildings... or we could make it expensive, like an elephant.
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by max-damage » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:29 am

I realize I'm a bit late with this, but since it seems to have been lost in the shuffle, what is the status of the next upgrade/unit addition/vote, etc.,.?
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Re: unit: dwarven tunneler

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:18 am

Ok, just to make sure i've understood.

- When you use a tunneler what do you see as a player? Do you see a map of the underground?

- If that works that way you might already have some problems in finding the right spot to the enemy base. That should be almost enough to make the tunnel mechanic balanced.

- Buildings that collapse? I don't agree with this. You are digging a little tunnel that makes you able to walk under a building. You aren't really digging so much. And that would also be OP imho.

-If you really want to make building collaps you might realize a special unit (like dwarves with dinamyte) that can receive the command to attack a unit with dinamyte and dies in the process (like an assassin of buildings that can be sent in a tunnel).

- If you don't realize a map of the underground that could simply work another way.
When you use the tunneler to create an entrance you leave it inside that building. The entrance might contain up to 4 unit. If the entrance contain more tunnelers they can dig faster (maybe up to 3 tiles/turn per tunneler). If the tunnel contains other units other than the tunneler they might start moving inside the tunnel as it is being built, right after the digger.
The tunnel you build is just highlighted when you select on of the entrances and is like a movement range highlight (maybe with another color).

-Your tunnels cannot intersect enemy tunnels (for the sake of making it simple, and you also might dig at different heights).

-When a unit enter a tunnel the engine makes you select a waypoint to one of the entrances and from now on they moves by 3 (or less, if the unit is slower) per turn until they reach the exit. You cannot change that unit course after you decide it (the unit is underground and can't receive orders). Other units can enter the entrance when the first turn of movement has passed for the first 4 units.

-Bigger units might not be able to enter the tunnel (no siege weapon inside for example).

I hope that some of my ideas can help you
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