Imperial Pikeman or Spearman - ANSWERED

[DreJaDe]

I suggest to remove the imperial Pikeman in the game and bring back the stats of the old imperial halberdiers.

The reason for this is like why is an imperial that's supposed to be elite have variants of the same category (I'm ok with Shielder and swordsman). Also it doesn't look good for as an elite unit and the unit itself doesn't look good.

Just a suggestion.

[makazuwr32]

Imperial halberdier is in the game (dev version) as well.

Has 40 hp, 20 attack and 5 turn cost.

[DreJaDe]

Imperial halberdier is in the game (dev version) as well.

Has 40 hp, 20 attack and 5 turn cost.

I don't get the relevance of your statement?

[makazuwr32]

Imperial halberdier is in the game (dev version) as well.

Has 40 hp, 20 attack and 5 turn cost.

I don't get the relevance of your statement?

I am saying that imperial halberdier is not excluding imperial piker.

We also want to differentate halberds and pike-based weapons and thus orcs, dwarves and humans (for now) will have at base both halberdiers and pikemen.

Halberdier will have better hp and attack, on level of basic warrior-type unit of race, but with lower bonuses against cavalry. Maybe also with some temporary aoe via ability (researchable). They also will be more costly.
Pikeman on the other hand will have better bonuses against cavalry but weaker stats and attack (as they are now).

Back to imperial pikeman and imperial guard:
Imperial guard now is halberdier-type unit with decent hp (40 hp), good attack (20 attack) and halved from imperial pikeman's bonuses (150%). So overall he has at most same usability as imperial pikeman against cavalry but due to health he can survive more attacks of enemy cavalry AND he is also better fighter against non-cavalry targets than imperial pikeman. But he is more costly.
Imperial pikeman on the other hand has moderate hp (30 hp), lower attack (10 attack) and normal elite bonuses to cavalry (300%). He is also cheaper than guard.

As result imperial pikeman is more specialized against cavalry with better bonuses at cheaper cost while imperial guard is better in general stats that can be used in wider situation range while being worse as pure anti-cav and more costly.

[Puss_in_Boots]

I think Halberdiers for aoe attack need to use the ability "cleave," because halberds had a great area of attack when swung horizontally.

[makazuwr32]

Well name can be used that IF halberds will have ability to get power range.

It is still discussing.

[makazuwr32]

Well name can be used that IF halberds will have ability to get power range.

It is still discussing.

[DreJaDe]

Imperial halberdier is in the game (dev version) as well.

Has 40 hp, 20 attack and 5 turn cost.

I don't get the relevance of your statement?

I am saying that imperial halberdier is not excluding imperial piker.

We also want to differentate halberds and pike-based weapons and thus orcs, dwarves and humans (for now) will have at base both halberdiers and pikemen.

Halberdier will have better hp and attack, on level of basic warrior-type unit of race, but with lower bonuses against cavalry. Maybe also with some temporary aoe via ability (researchable). They also will be more costly.
Pikeman on the other hand will have better bonuses against cavalry but weaker stats and attack (as they are now).

Back to imperial pikeman and imperial guard:
Imperial guard now is halberdier-type unit with decent hp (40 hp), good attack (20 attack) and halved from imperial pikeman's bonuses (150%). So overall he has at most same usability as imperial pikeman against cavalry but due to health he can survive more attacks of enemy cavalry AND he is also better fighter against non-cavalry targets than imperial pikeman. But he is more costly.
Imperial pikeman on the other hand has moderate hp (30 hp), lower attack (10 attack) and normal elite bonuses to cavalry (300%). He is also cheaper than guard.

As result imperial pikeman is more specialized against cavalry with better bonuses at cheaper cost while imperial guard is better in general stats that can be used in wider situation range while being worse as pure anti-cav and more costly.

I like this idea!

Now I suggest to

Better make the normal halberdiers a 2 turn units and remove entirely the normal swordsmen that I don't even know how it looks because no one uses it.

[makazuwr32]

I am using them a lot. They are quite good units.
Also they will have even better role in future when we will rework bonuses (and remove some bonuses at all) - they will keep unlike their shielder more costly variants current anti-building bonuses.
Shielders will have halved anti building bonuses.

We also are planning to overall revamp of buildings: removal of special anti-megabuilding bonuses - they will count as fortifications, increasing hp of factories up to 100-150 range (still discussing), increasing hp of towers, walls and (a bit) megas, increasing significantly role of siege units and their bonuses against buildings (trebushet-like units will be only ones who will be able to demolish factory in single hit)...

Back to swordmen:
Human warrior (2 turn cost), dwarven swordman and warrior (upcoming ones, after revamp, both 3 turn cost) are affected by shield upgrades unlike halberdiers who aren't due to the lack of shield. In case of humans this means +2/+2 armor, in case of dwarves means +2/+2 armor and +10% to both melee and ranged dodges. This is sometimes quite significant difference.

[Alexander82]

I don't get the relevance of your statement?

I am saying that imperial halberdier is not excluding imperial piker.

We also want to differentate halberds and pike-based weapons and thus orcs, dwarves and humans (for now) will have at base both halberdiers and pikemen.

Halberdier will have better hp and attack, on level of basic warrior-type unit of race, but with lower bonuses against cavalry. Maybe also with some temporary aoe via ability (researchable). They also will be more costly.
Pikeman on the other hand will have better bonuses against cavalry but weaker stats and attack (as they are now).

Back to imperial pikeman and imperial guard:
Imperial guard now is halberdier-type unit with decent hp (40 hp), good attack (20 attack) and halved from imperial pikeman's bonuses (150%). So overall he has at most same usability as imperial pikeman against cavalry but due to health he can survive more attacks of enemy cavalry AND he is also better fighter against non-cavalry targets than imperial pikeman. But he is more costly.
Imperial pikeman on the other hand has moderate hp (30 hp), lower attack (10 attack) and normal elite bonuses to cavalry (300%). He is also cheaper than guard.

As result imperial pikeman is more specialized against cavalry with better bonuses at cheaper cost while imperial guard is better in general stats that can be used in wider situation range while being worse as pure anti-cav and more costly.

I like this idea!

Now I suggest to

Better make the normal halberdiers a 2 turn units and remove entirely the normal swordsmen that I don't even know how it looks because no one uses it.

Just to make sure:

We don't usually remove units but we generally orefer to adjust their stats if they aren't on par with others

[DreJaDe]

I am using them a lot. They are quite good units.
Also they will have even better role in future when we will rework bonuses (and remove some bonuses at all) - they will keep unlike their shielder more costly variants current anti-building bonuses.
Shielders will have halved anti building bonuses.

We also are planning to overall revamp of buildings: removal of special anti-megabuilding bonuses - they will count as fortifications, increasing hp of factories up to 100-150 range (still discussing), increasing hp of towers, walls and (a bit) megas, increasing significantly role of siege units and their bonuses against buildings (trebushet-like units will be only ones who will be able to demolish factory in single hit)...

Back to swordmen:
Human warrior (2 turn cost), dwarven swordman and warrior (upcoming ones, after revamp, both 3 turn cost) are affected by shield upgrades unlike halberdiers who aren't due to the lack of shield. In case of humans this means +2/+2 armor, in case of dwarves means +2/+2 armor and +10% to both melee and ranged dodges. This is sometimes quite significant difference.

Is the shield = +armor and the dodge chances an incoming update cause I thought they're just an upgrade needed to upgrade a unit with shield.

But thanks for the response!!!

[makazuwr32]

Full info for dwarven blacksmith upgrades can be found HERE

And even for humans shield techs from blacksmith also give +2/+2 armor already.

[DreJaDe]

Oh I didn't notice this, I thought this is included to the effect of group attack from the warfell captain. I almost don't play human without one.

[makazuwr32]

Warfell captain's aura gives only +2 to attack.
Nothing else.

[DreJaDe]

Yeah right! That!

[Alexander82]

ANSWERED