Orc warrior variants - conscription - ARCHIVED

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Alexander82
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Orc warrior variants - conscription - ARCHIVED

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:29 pm

This idea would change how the orc warrior works

This way we will have a random chance of having different kind of orc warriors (the current, a two handed version, the armored version, a dual weapon with lower attack and so on). Every version will have its own upgrade path.

The stats of those units will be balanced to have comparable stats and thus this will mostly add variety in how the army will look.

Do you like the idea?
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:57 pm

This might be an interesting idea to apply to a lot of the orc army. Say cost 2 for a random orc, ranging from axe thrower​ to armored warrior to dual wielding orc, but up the cost to 3 for specific units. Same goes for goblins, being spearman, archers, or slaves. Similarly, uruks come out armed with a random weapon. This would describe the chaotic situation of an orc army, where it's easier to let your troops bring their own weapons than to train them with new ones.
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:15 pm

I was thinking to make 2 types for orcs (1 for ranged and another for melee). We might also do something similar for cavalry (we might add some variant to the existing orc cavalry units).

I'd like something like that for goblins but they still have only 2 units (and one is an anti cavalry, so having no chance of making some might be too much of a downside).

I know Daniel isn't too keen about randomizations but this might be good for both flavor and balance (orc units are generally stronger and that randomization might just hit the strategy with a chance of obtaining a slightly better unit but the chance of training something you needed less in that moment).

If you like that i think i can work it out of votes since it is just a new approach for existing units in game with some variants.
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:28 pm

I love the flavor. I admit balance might be difficult to work out, but the flavor is great. It's more like recruitment than training, which fits orcs quite well. Unfortunately the only ranged orc currently is axe thrower, who I think would fit best in the melee bunch better anyway. Something of a surprise "by the way, these axes are for throwing, not smashing.

At the same time, maybe orc crushers could become axe wielders. Same stats, just a new image, since they are just weaker versions of the uruk axemen.
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:41 pm

It is true but i might add a different variant (for example a single axe thrower instead of double, a javellin thrower or an archer similar to the goblin. Even a rock thrower as the bottom line of the army).
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:01 pm

Here's a curious thought. Maybe expand goblins to include every unit type, and be able to build them directly. Then orcs are recruited with no control, but are inherently stronger than goblins, to make up the risk of getting one you didn't want.

A step further towards this kind of flavor would be making cave trolls, ettins, and hamletbacks (not orc leaders though) uncontrollable like green dragons. Maybe buff or cheapen them to make up the balance, of course.

This might help make hamletback more useful as it is, simply​ having it spawn a random goblin, rather than a spiker.
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:09 pm

I'm not much fond of incontrollable units. Especially when it comes to costly units might be more important how you use them than their stats.

It might be ok for some cheap mass units (you also heven't the problem of moving them when you have a great amount).

Also we can't just make a race where AI play instead of the gamer xD
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:13 pm

Daniel, what do you think? We talked about it but you didn't know if players would have been favorable or not.

I can add all orc variants i can (and make their leveled counterparts). If you want i might start working on that.

Here are some possible variants:
Attachments
32_orc_armored_warrior.png
32_orc_armored_warrior.png (1.37 KiB) Viewed 1157 times
Orc 2 hander basic.png
Orc 2 hander basic.png (20.01 KiB) Viewed 1157 times
Orc Warrior.png
Orc Warrior.png (17.82 KiB) Viewed 1157 times
Orc Warrior with knife.png
Orc Warrior with knife.png (18.66 KiB) Viewed 1157 times
Orc Warrior shield.png
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Orc Warrior Helmet.png
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Orc Warrior scimitar.png
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Stratego (dev)
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:16 pm

sorry, i dont get it :)
but i remember we talked, but i forgot what is the idea here - email me please :)

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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:21 pm

Alexander82 wrote:I'm not much fond of incontrollable units. Especially when it comes to costly units might be more important how you use them than their stats.

It might be ok for some cheap mass units (you also heven't the problem of moving them when you have a great amount).

Also we can't just make a race where AI play instead of the gamer xD
I can understand that. Heh, mass quantities of cheap units you can let the ai control sounds interesting. Maybe an undead summon, 1 life and 4 power.

Anyway, what do you think of using goblins for the option to pick your troops, and orcs come randomly?
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:23 pm

What becomes of their upgrades?
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:23 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:sorry, i dont get it :)
but i remember we talked, but i forgot what is the idea here - email me please :)
LOLZ your're getting too old Dan xD
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:27 pm

this was the idea xD

Recruit the orc infantry with some unit variants to make them look a bit different and chaotic.

Every variant will have different stats and a different upgrade (e.g. a orc with shield will have an elite and master variant with shield, while a 2 handed swordman will have elite and master version with a 2 handed sword).
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:28 pm

Don't they all need a level 2 version as well?

Or are the conscripts different from the orc warrior it's starting to get slightly confusing, so which direction is this exactly heading towards?
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:55 pm

they all will have elite and master levels

They are variants of the same unit.
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:49 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:new config option in json:

"rndProd":{ // this will let you make unit groups, and among the group random spawning: eg. if we want to have 2 similar orc riders, but with different images, you can set this to have it random.
"prodGroup":"AUX", // group name
"prodWeight":20 // summing up the weights in group and getting the random based on weight (eg. you have unitA(w10) unitB(w25) unitC(w15) than unitA=20%, unitB=50%, unitC = 30% chance)
},
Looks like we even have a way to make this happen, if I understand this right.
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:05 pm

Yes. This is why Daniel had the idea.

Daniel, is that ok for you if I start implementing it?
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Re: Orc warrior variants - conscription

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:35 pm

Ok. I talked with Daniel that is against this idea so i can archive the topic I guess
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