Balancing: wolf rider

Post Reply
Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9551
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Balancing: wolf rider

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:55 pm

actually, fireball shouldn't be a tech vecause that is the omly way to defeat an orc cavalry unit (I forgot name).
here i totally disagree:
- using slowing effect and any ranged units after
- using disarmor spell and killing with any kind of units
- using sacrifice killer spell
- using poisoning
- converting it
- using pikeman or similar anti cavalry units best combining with a spell like slowing.
- using ornithopter or eagle
- any buff on him is removed by disenchant.
there is maps in a campaign which is based on the fireball spell.
in any campaign there can be set any tect to be available or not (as far as i can remember ;))

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by max-damage » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:28 am

Besides which, a spell/effect/ability being a tech doesn't mean it's unattainable or has to be unlocked with gems...it just means it has to be researched in a given match...like "persuasion" in AoS....
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

User avatar
balint
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:38 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by balint » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:16 pm

okay. The disarmor is useleless, slowing don't works when there are more of them then your mages, only lich van convert,
anti-cavalry->they are quite useless. when it reach rhem, it kills in one hit.
This is Hungary and winter is coming.

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by max-damage » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:34 pm

balint wrote:okay. The disarmor is useleless, slowing don't works when there are more of them then your mages, only lich van convert,
anti-cavalry->they are quite useless. when it reach rhem, it kills in one hit.
It/them what? Specifically...
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9551
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:50 am

balint wrote:okay. The disarmor is useleless, slowing don't works when there are more of them then your mages, only lich van convert,
anti-cavalry->they are quite useless. when it reach rhem, it kills in one hit.
disarmor is truly not so ggod, i ment to write "fear"

ok, i we should try them in a hotseat
(
- 5 wolfrider against 10 pikeman
- 5 wolfrider against 3 druid and 5 elf archer
- new idea: 5 wolfrider against 2 mage and 1 warelephant (lifelinking the elephant)
- and so on
)
Anyone mind to try one of these?

Do u have specific suggestion how to change the wolf rider?

User avatar
balint
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:38 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by balint » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:23 pm

I try our
This is Hungary and winter is coming.

User avatar
balint
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:38 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by balint » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:24 pm

max-damage wrote:
balint wrote:okay. The disarmor is useleless, slowing don't works when there are more of them then your mages, only lich van convert,
anti-cavalry->they are quite useless. when it reach rhem, it kills in one hit.
It/them what? Specifically...
it stands for the wolf rider and them for the anti-cavalry units.
This is Hungary and winter is coming.

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:21 pm

That's what the dev version are for...to iron out the wrinkles before General release...it's the BETA version...
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

User avatar
ollie444
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:42 pm
Location: UK

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by ollie444 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:25 pm

Wolf rider kills halberdier one-hit, no buffs.

This should definitely be changed, as wolf riders cost 4 turns to make I think.
They are way too op

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:28 pm

Do they only kill halberdiers in one hit or any unit? If it's only halberdiers, it's probably just a problem with the damage bonus...otherwise they might need to be completely rethought...they're supposed to be powerful, not invincible...
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9551
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:02 pm

i tested 5 wolfrider against 10 pikeman, pikes won...


(one hit: a knight can also kill a pike with 1 hit: it needs only a +1 upgrade on attack, a wolf rider is reasonable to be stronger than a single knight, so it is ok being able to kill a pike with one hit by default.)

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:27 pm

Daniel (the dev) wrote:i tested 5 wolfrider against 10 pikeman, pikes won...


(one hit: a knight can also kill a pike with 1 hit: it needs only a +1 upgrade on attack, a wolf rider is reasonable to be stronger than a single knight, so it is ok being able to kill a pike with one hit by default.)
But a knight gets injured if it attacks a halberdier, often severely, especially if the halberdier has any bonuses on its attack, like sword mastery...i use that a lot for that very reason...
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

User avatar
ollie444
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:42 pm
Location: UK

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by ollie444 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:41 pm

But halberdiers should be stronger, right?

Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9551
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Initial techs for all races

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:49 pm

"But a knight gets injured if it attacks a halberdier"
- sure since knight has 10 attack and halberdier hp is 13 (pike is 11)
- but if the heavy knight (we need to talk about heavy knight if you have halberdiers) has the same +1 attack as my sample above (from a sword mastery tech) than halberdier will die from 1 hit by the heavy knight (orcs ar tougher, so i thought a wolf rider can be harder by default as a heavy knight).

But ok, we can change it but neither of you gave any suggestions on how to change the stats, please give suggestions.

and also i mentioned this: "i tested 5 wolfrider against 10 pikeman, pikes won..." that seemed they can be killed with the same "turn cost".

i also open a balancing topic for it because this discussion is not good here.

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Balancing: wolf rider

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:07 pm

Okay, I'll comment in the other thread...

Uh...where is it? :P
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9551
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Balancing: wolf rider

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:16 pm

here it is :)
ok, i change wolf down to 12 power, lets try it.
(also came into my mind that wolfs can only be trained in TC-s, that is drawback too, since pikes/halberdiers in barracks too)
(and if the wolf rider has only 12 power that is the same as the orc warrior has, seems weird now - isn't it?)

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Balancing: wolf rider

Post by max-damage » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:58 pm

Why not make the orc warrior's attack 11-that's still higher than a human swordsman, and orcs can develop sword mastery, can't they? The thing is, the stats for human units are adapted from AoS, right? Those stats were designed for human vs.human battles, and you'll rarely, if ever, have human vs.human battles in AoF...so maybe all the stars need to be rethought for the humans in AoF...
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9551
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Balancing: wolf rider

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:58 pm

Why not make the orc warrior's attack 11-that's still higher than a human swordsman
ok, considerable
and orcs can develop sword mastery, can't they?
no they dont - but some other power booster can be but not the sames, and not so much (as the "itinier" said)
The thing is, the stats for human units are adapted from AoS, right? Those stats were designed for human vs.human battles, and you'll rarely, if ever, have human vs.human battles in AoF...so maybe all the stars need to be rethought for the humans in AoF...
no, the AOS units are well balanced (mostly) so new races must be balanced to the humans, if a race is more powerful (like orcs) they must be stronger), if weaker (like elves, or hobbits) must be weaker. Human race change will only be the new mages and such new spellcasters.

max-damage
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 am
Location: right behind you...

Re: Balancing: wolf rider

Post by max-damage » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:11 am

Right, i think i get what you mean...I'm just trying to offer a little perspective on the unit-stat-balance point...if no-one says anything it's hard to come up with viable solutions...and no-one else seems to be offering much input...

As far as the orc power booster thing goes, orcs aren't known for being terribly bright or prone to learning-their troops mostly rely on huge numbers and brute force, so they would only need a single level of power boost, if any...would you agree?
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...

User avatar
ollie444
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:42 pm
Location: UK

Re: Balancing: wolf rider

Post by ollie444 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:56 pm

Why can't you just do like a -50% on a wolf-rider's attack on pikemen? Is it possible...?

Stratego (dev)
Site Admin
Posts: 9551
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Balancing: wolf rider

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:27 pm

not seems a good way: the pikeman have no bigger armor against melee attacks than others so it would be weird i think.

Post Reply

Return to “IMPLEMENTED - ARCHIVED”